Is This Normal

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Manufactured from 2004 to 2011

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LanceG
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Is This Normal

Post by LanceG » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:13 pm

When pootling along, If I come off the gas but stay in gear (at any speed), the car slows down itself faster than if I pootle, then throw it in neutral and coast.

Is that normal?

Car hass a manual gear box
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Nottsknots
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by Nottsknots » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:12 pm

Yes.

Its called Engine Braking.

Friction in the gearbox and engine along with compression in the cylinders (which heats the air and either wastes the energy through the exhaust, or through the cooling system) takes kinetic energy from the car, so it slows down. In neutral theres just the tyres, and drive train up to the gearbox, which is less resistance, so it slows, well, slower.
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by LanceG » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:46 pm

Nottsknots you have taken a lot of stress off my shoulders sir! :mrgreen:

Thank you!!!
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120d SE - FK Coilovers

Next mod: A service and Gearbox and Diff Oil Change.
Wishlist: Cades Shift or Zitos - Eibach Front ARB - short shifter hopefully next.

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Red5
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by Red5 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:52 pm

+1

You can see the revs dropping slowly while in gear, but out of gear, drop to idle speed immediately.

In theory, you shouldn’t have noticed this though.
There’s never a time during driving, that you should be putting the car in neutral while still moving.

How did you come to notice?
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LanceG
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by LanceG » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:59 pm

Red5 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:52 pm
+1

You can see the revs dropping slowly while in gear, but out of gear, drop to idle speed immediately.

In theory, you shouldn’t have noticed this though.
There’s never a time during driving, that you should be putting the car in neutral while still moving.

How did you come to notice?
The car felt like it was slowing down in gear like I said previously so I put it in neutral whilst moving to see if it would slow down the same.

I wasn't really focusing on the revs, more the speedo and I can see that it decreases in speed quicker in gear than it does when I'm in neutral
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Next mod: A service and Gearbox and Diff Oil Change.
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AndytheGreek
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by AndytheGreek » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:52 pm

LanceG wrote:When pootling along, If I come off the gas but stay in gear (at any speed), the car slows down itself faster than if I pootle, then throw it in neutral and coast.

Is that normal?

Car hass a manual gear box
Is this your first car??
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tweeky
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by tweeky » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:50 pm

HGV use Engine braking as normal procedure otherwise they'd be in for pads and discs weekly
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Jfk
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by Jfk » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:01 pm

Nowt wrong with coasting in neutral...
Modern auto boxes do this by default when they detect no need for power or braking ..
HGV included.
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stevesurrey
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by stevesurrey » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:23 pm

I'm a little surprised OP hasn't noticed this before. Using engine braking is such a normal part of daily driving. But then I'm old enough to remember having to use low gears going down steep hills so the engine helped brake the car too as non-servo drum brakes were rubbish.
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pem10
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by pem10 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:12 pm

Completely normal bud.
When I was learning to drive albeit 25 years ago I was taught to not to go through the gears when coming to a stop. So that meant not using engine braking and putting it into neutral just before the car stalled. Things may have changed since then, and that was by no means the only way I'm sure, but it's something that has stuck with me over the years particularly when just pootling around.

Different technique when I'm on it though :drive:
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by LanceG » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:50 pm


AndytheGreek wrote: Is this your first car??
6th
stevesurrey wrote:I'm a little surprised OP hasn't noticed this before. Using engine braking is such a normal part of daily driving. But then I'm old enough to remember having to use low gears going down steep hills so the engine helped brake the car too as non-servo drum brakes were rubbish.
Never happened as forcefully as it does now

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120d SE - FK Coilovers

Next mod: A service and Gearbox and Diff Oil Change.
Wishlist: Cades Shift or Zitos - Eibach Front ARB - short shifter hopefully next.

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Re: Is This Normal

Post by LanceG » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:52 pm

pem10 wrote:Completely normal bud.
When I was learning to drive albeit 25 years ago I was taught to not to go through the gears when coming to a stop. So that meant not using engine braking and putting it into neutral just before the car stalled. Things may have changed since then, and that was by no means the only way I'm sure, but it's something that has stuck with me over the years particularly when just pootling around.

Different technique when I'm on it though :drive:
Interesting.

I go through the gears when I'm slowing, like I'm trying to always have the revs matching the speed, I guys it does unnecessarily burn out the clutch like that though Image

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120d SE - FK Coilovers

Next mod: A service and Gearbox and Diff Oil Change.
Wishlist: Cades Shift or Zitos - Eibach Front ARB - short shifter hopefully next.

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Red5
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by Red5 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:50 am

Jfk wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:01 pm
Nowt wrong with coasting in neutral...
Modern auto boxes do this by default when they detect no need for power or braking ..
HGV included.
Coating in neutral is dangerous and should never be done in a manual vehicle :shock:
You would fail your driving test and also ALL further/advanced driving tests. The instructor would most likely ask you to pull over and then get out. It’s THAT bad!

In neutral the car is very unstable and behaves totally differently to driver inputs. In any kind of unforeseen situation, your ability to slow down and / or change direction are badly compromised.

The auto vehicles also feel horrible when they do their, but are not dangerous. They will re-select a gear if you brake, or steer much. So you can’t get caught out.
However, there are instances where the car car be very unstable still and the practice is still sup-optimal.

There’s no grey area on this.
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Red5
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by Red5 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:06 am

LanceG wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:52 pm
I go through the gears when I'm slowing, like I'm trying to always have the revs matching the speed, I guys it does unnecessarily burn out the clutch like that though Image

Changing down as you slow down is not taught, or recommended by any official body I’m aware of.
You’re taught to slow down using brakes alone, then select the appropriate gear to proceed, once conditions allow.
Or, as mentioned above, de-clutch just before you come to a standstill, so the engine doesn’t stall.

This is is designed to minimise the time you spend in neutral for the reasons I mention above. Also your hands are where they should be on the wheel.
It is taught in advanced driving lessons, but not as something to do all the time. The general rule, is to not overlap braking and gear changes.

However, it is permissible to change down while slowing and lots of people do this. It is good for can control, at the expense of emergency preparedness, which is why official bodies frown on the technique.

To answer your question though.....Yes it will wear the clutch,unless you rev-match / heal & toe your down shifts. Otherwise, every down change is slipping the clutch like a learner driver pulling away badly.
Gone
Tasty 130i
Very fast 135i
Volcano Grey Macan SD
Carmine Red Cayman GTS + LSD

Red5 & Semerka's Stable
Lonesome Midnight Blue Macan Turbo + PTV and other tasty bits


(Team Rob)

LanceG
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Re: Is This Normal

Post by LanceG » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:54 am

Red5 wrote:
Jfk wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:01 pm
Nowt wrong with coasting in neutral...
Modern auto boxes do this by default when they detect no need for power or braking ..
HGV included.
Coating in neutral is dangerous and should never be done in a manual vehicle :shock:
You would fail your driving test and also ALL further/advanced driving tests. The instructor would most likely ask you to pull over and then get out. It’s THAT bad!

In neutral the car is very unstable and behaves totally differently to driver inputs. In any kind of unforeseen situation, your ability to slow down and / or change direction are badly compromised.

The auto vehicles also feel horrible when they do their, but are not dangerous. They will re-select a gear if you brake, or steer much. So you can’t get caught out.
However, there are instances where the car car be very unstable still and the practice is still sup-optimal.

There’s no grey area on this.
Red I think your focusing on the coasting a bit too much.

I was concerned about how much the car slowed down whilst in gear, so I coasted to see if it would slow down the same.

Which it didn't.

I still think it slows down far too much though, I tilt a little bit forward because of it

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Image
120d SE - FK Coilovers

Next mod: A service and Gearbox and Diff Oil Change.
Wishlist: Cades Shift or Zitos - Eibach Front ARB - short shifter hopefully next.

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