Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

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THETYRANT
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Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by THETYRANT » Wed May 16, 2018 9:55 am

Ok i know the E-LSD (software simulated LSD using rear brakes when DTC is fully off/long press) was standard on 135i coupe and all 123D models but after having a sprint event on track at croft on sunday (where i had the DTC fully off) i found rear traction very good with little to no wheelspin on exit of tight bends, in the past on my old pre-faceflift 130i's i would all to easily get terrible wheelspin issues in similar circumstances, at first i put it down the the PS4 tyres ive just fitted and my suspension tweaks but im sure there was E-LSD kicking in as felt very similar to it on my old 135i coupe, also i noticed some DTC flashing on dashboard but very little if any wheelspin and no cutting of power etc like you get when all switched on. I cant remember if the light on dash used to flash on 135i when E-LSD it was intervening.

Ive been doing a little reading this morning and seems its thought by some that march 2008 onwards 1 & 3 series models all got the E-LSD but not seen anything for definite yet, i haven't had a look in my owners manual yet to see if any mention of it and sure there was in the 135i manual but cant remember for sure.

While the E-LSD is not as good as proper LSD ( i one had in previous 130i and other cars) but i found on my 135 its a whole lot better than not having it when on track, main issues are its not as fast to act as proper diff and wears rear pads quicker, if you fit track spec pads it is a problem as slows car down too much when E-LSD is active and have to apply more power to make same progress, does a reasonable job of limiting inside wheel spinning out of control though.

Anyone seen more info on this on 2008 onwards 130's?
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by supercati » Wed May 16, 2018 12:23 pm

I always read that only 135i and 123d had the E-LSD, but let's see what other users can tell.

Are you sure that with DTC/DSC off completely the icon flashed on the dash?
130i E81 2007 LHD - Sparkling Graphite Metallic / Boston Terra - CDV Delete - 135i ESD with resonator delete - LED Blacklines - RIP :(
130i E81 2008 LHD - LSE / Boston Terra - Complete HiFi Retrofit - CDV Delete - LED Blacklines - BMWP SSK -

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by THETYRANT » Wed May 16, 2018 12:31 pm

supercati wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:23 pm
I always read that only 135i and 123d had the E-LSD, but let's see what other users can tell.

Are you sure that with DTC/DSC off completely the icon flashed on the dash?
Yes i had read the same but after sunday i started to research possible changes on 2008 onwards cars but no definite answer as yet, ive seen people talk about coding it on/off on 135i coupe after fitting Quaife etc so maybe i will hook up laptop to my car and see if it has same parameters as the 135i etc.

100% the light was flashing on the dashboard on a tight hairpin bend and the DTC/DSC was fully switched off on every lap.
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by Poormans » Wed May 16, 2018 1:13 pm

Pretty sure '09 models have them. A guy used to have a '09 e87 with E-lsd and hydraulic rack and cic nav. Mine's probably slightly younger with epas, E-lsd and same nav. Not sure '08 models had E-lsd, never seen anybody tell or question that.

Maybe worth starting a thread with info about equipment and factory build date? Things like lci ('07), cic nav ('09), mickey mouse mirrors ('10) and the front lights with led ('12?) seem to be in indication of the year the car is from.
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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by THETYRANT » Wed May 16, 2018 2:15 pm

Just checked the owners manual and seems yes E-LSD is present on my car which is May2008 build E81 130i, below is what it says in my manual ...

" 123d, 130i: in the same was as with a differential interlock, brake intervention takes place on the rear axle if drive wheels spin severely, improving forward momentum even if DSC is disabled"

Im sure this same paragraph in my pre-fl 130 just started with 123d and no mention of 130i, anyone with a pre-fl car have a peek in manual ?

This would explain why in previous pre-fl 130's ive had if DTC/DSC is fully switched off on stock diff then everything thing is off, apart from abs of course, this means tight bends and heavy right foot has the inside wheel will spinning up so easy, in my current 2008 car it is not the case and car is much better on track which is a bonus for now until I get a proper quaife etc in there, just need to keep a closer eye on the rear pads in meantime!
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by markhurley » Wed May 16, 2018 4:59 pm

THETYRANT wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:55 am
Ok i know the E-LSD (software simulated LSD using rear brakes when DTC is fully off/long press) was standard on 135i coupe and all 123D models but after having a sprint event on track at croft on sunday (where i had the DTC fully off) i found rear traction very good with little to no wheelspin on exit of tight bends, in the past on my old pre-faceflift 130i's i would all to easily get terrible wheelspin issues in similar circumstances, at first i put it down the the PS4 tyres ive just fitted and my suspension tweaks but im sure there was E-LSD kicking in as felt very similar to it on my old 135i coupe, also i noticed some DTC flashing on dashboard but very little if any wheelspin and no cutting of power etc like you get when all switched on. I cant remember if the light on dash used to flash on 135i when E-LSD it was intervening.

Ive been doing a little reading this morning and seems its thought by some that march 2008 onwards 1 & 3 series models all got the E-LSD but not seen anything for definite yet, i haven't had a look in my owners manual yet to see if any mention of it and sure there was in the 135i manual but cant remember for sure.

While the E-LSD is not as good as proper LSD ( i one had in previous 130i and other cars) but i found on my 135 its a whole lot better than not having it when on track, main issues are its not as fast to act as proper diff and wears rear pads quicker, if you fit track spec pads it is a problem as slows car down too much when E-LSD is active and have to apply more power to make same progress, does a reasonable job of limiting inside wheel spinning out of control though.

Anyone seen more info on this on 2008 onwards 130's?
Mines a late 58 plate car and it behaves exactly as you have described, I also have the quaife fitted so it’s generally best to turn everything off , but if damp or wet it’s nice to have the dtc single prod safety net :)

Even with one prod DTC I can pull out of junctions with a reasonable bit of angle obviously the diff helps.

How was the track day ?
130i Birds B1 suspension,M3 front arms,M3 rear arms,Powerflex inserts ,BMWP strut brace,M135i front brake's,BMWP rear brake's, 28mm M3 front roll bar,20mm white line rear roll bar ,Quaife LSD,MPSCup2tyre's.

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by THETYRANT » Thu May 17, 2018 7:50 am

markhurley wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:59 pm

Mines a late 58 plate car and it behaves exactly as you have described, I also have the quaife fitted so it’s generally best to turn everything off , but if damp or wet it’s nice to have the dtc single prod safety net :)

Even with one prod DTC I can pull out of junctions with a reasonable bit of angle obviously the diff helps.

How was the track day ?
Good stuff, seems you cant turn everything off on facelift cars though with E-LSD always being active even after long press of DTC, it will help control Quaife though due to them not liking unloaded/light wheels etc, when I had my Quaife in pre-facelift 130 you could still get it spinning inside wheel on tight uphill hairpins etc where wheel is very light, certainly E-LSD would of helped in that situation.

Sprint was good and drove home which was a bonus :D, we only get 6 laps or so all day but car felt good and was nice to get it back on track, would of been better to still have the firmer BMWP springs in but wasn't too bad, new PS4 tyres didn't like heat but all in all coped well enough considering the weight etc, most stuff in my class was well modded but managed to beat a few 330's both running sticky semi slicks and one was stripped out on coilovers etc, couldn't catch the pocket rocket minis though!

My best time was a 1.45 compared to same layout in my Supercharged GT86 when I did 1.40 , that had similar power but 300+kg lighter and on coilovers, better tyres etc, was hoping to get within a couple of seconds and think had I been braver maybe could of got closer but was just a shakedown day really so not pushing 100% for obvious reasons.

Need to decide whats next for it but I think im going to leave pretty much as is as its so good on road and buy a cheaper/lighter track/sprint car, maybe build another supercharged MX5 as miss my last one, it was most fun ive had for couple of grand :D
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by Toed64 » Thu May 17, 2018 11:54 am

My E81 130i is your car's twin - same year and same colour!

When I bought it, it was standard other than MPSS tyres. I was surprised that the traction was so poor - the back tyres lit up so easily that I suspected that the MPSS tyres had fossilised or that a rear shock was clapped out. It does not seem to have an E-diff - it made me appreciate how much work the E-diff on my 135i had been doing.

A press and hold on the DTC button switches on the traction control light permanently, as it did on my 135i...does yours go out?

Now that I have installed some of your suspension recommendations: Koni Sports with Koni bump stops, MSport springs, Nolathane inserts, M3 LCAs and your camber plates, the car is, as expected, transformed, but I was surprised by how much better the straight line grip had become. The back tyres were not great anymore, so I replaced them and now, it's so good that I have almost wiped out my excuse to fit a Wavetrac or Quaiffe - it would be nice, but not really necessary for my daily road driving.
2008 E81 130i
2010 E82 135i - now sold

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by THETYRANT » Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 pm

Toed64 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 11:54 am
My E81 130i is your car's twin - same year and same colour!

When I bought it, it was standard other than MPSS tyres. I was surprised that the traction was so poor - the back tyres lit up so easily that I suspected that the MPSS tyres had fossilised or that a rear shock was clapped out. It does not seem to have an E-diff - it made me appreciate how much work the E-diff on my 135i had been doing.

A press and hold on the DTC button switches on the traction control light permanently, as it did on my 135i...does yours go out?

Now that I have installed some of your suspension recommendations: Koni Sports with Koni bump stops, MSport springs, Nolathane inserts, M3 LCAs and your camber plates, the car is, as expected, transformed, but I was surprised by how much better the straight line grip had become. The back tyres were not great anymore, so I replaced them and now, it's so good that I have almost wiped out my excuse to fit a Wavetrac or Quaiffe - it would be nice, but not really necessary for my daily road driving.
Mine came to me on MPSS also (even more of a twin! :) ) and traction seemed fairly good to be fair, although most of time before changing them to MPS4 i was on Michelin winters so hard to say for sure, only time i pushed hard with the MPSS on was on trackday in torrential rain and they coped fairly well before standing water got better of the 245 rears and spun me off into scenery :(

If i press and hold the DTC i get the traction light on dashboard same as you, this is what was flashing on track at weekend on tight bends, no power cutting like you get will all nannys on so it was just doing its best with brakes on inside wheel to limit spinning up, i was impressed as mentioned above just how well it did at coping, like you found same as 135i in past and when driven smoothly the E-LSD did decent job really, would be interesting to see how it is on a really tight circuit like Teeside where my previous 130i was a nightmare due to several 2nd gear off camber tight bends how it copes.

Like you im now holding off on Quaiffe etc as happy enough for time being, seems the suspension mods and good tyres etc are giving me enough traction for road, will try and get a trackday in at Oulton park as that was another where i struggled in old/stock 130i in the past, as well as suspension tweaks i also have some mildly uprated rear pads (Carbotech Bobcat) which might be helping the E-LSD perform without hindering performance too much, i know when i had next compound up (AX6) in my 135i you could feel it holding car back with the higher friction pad when E-LSD kicked in, these Bobcats with softer bite seem more suited and ive got some to go in brembos when i get them fitted on rear as well so interesting to see what difference that makes.


Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by Toed64 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:13 pm

THETYRANT wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 pm
Toed64 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 11:54 am
My E81 130i is your car's twin - same year and same colour!
...
Mine came to me on MPSS also (even more of a twin! :) ) and traction seemed fairly good to be fair, although most of time before changing them to MPS4 i was on Michelin winters so hard to say for sure, only time i pushed hard with the MPSS on was on trackday in torrential rain and they coped fairly well before standing water got better of the 245 rears and spun me off into scenery :(

If i press and hold the DTC i get the traction light on dashboard same as you, this is what was flashing on track at weekend on tight bends, no power cutting like you get will all nannys on so it was just doing its best with brakes on inside wheel to limit spinning up, i was impressed as mentioned above just how well it did at coping, like you found same as 135i in past and when driven smoothly the E-LSD did decent job really, would be interesting to see how it is on a really tight circuit like Teeside where my previous 130i was a nightmare due to several 2nd gear off camber tight bends how it copes.

Like you im now holding off on Quaiffe etc as happy enough for time being, seems the suspension mods and good tyres etc are giving me enough traction for road, will try and get a trackday in at Oulton park as that was another where i struggled in old/stock 130i in the past, as well as suspension tweaks i also have some mildly uprated rear pads (Carbotech Bobcat) which might be helping the E-LSD perform without hindering performance too much, i know when i had next compound up (AX6) in my 135i you could feel it holding car back with the higher friction pad when E-LSD kicked in, these Bobcats with softer bite seem more suited and ive got some to go in brembos when i get them fitted on rear as well so interesting to see what difference that makes.

Ian
I intended to use up my 245 MPSS rears, even though I wasn't very pleased with them, but I had 3 punctures, in one tyre, in one day...so it was time for a new pair. The local tyre centre wanted £186 each for new 245 MPSS, so I nixed them and went with 255 Vredestein Ultrac Vortis - I wouldn't have chosen to go so wide, but that's what they had for £50 each less than the Michelins.

With the compliant suspension and ace damping, they grip so well in the dry that I will have to try very hard to see if I can induce a flickering traction light!

Have you fitted the M3 vert front ARB yet? I just bought one, but I'm not going to fit it yet - I want to replace my front tyres first to see if fitting 225 or 235 fronts neutralises the handling. I am wondering whether fitting just the front bar will make it understeer more. (I had M3 front and rear ARB on my 135i).

Are your Bobcat pads much of an upgrade over the OE pads? I'm fairly sure this one is on BMW pads as it has full BMW history.
2008 E81 130i
2010 E82 135i - now sold

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by THETYRANT » Thu May 17, 2018 3:18 pm

Toed64 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:13 pm
I intended to use up my 245 MPSS rears, even though I wasn't very pleased with them, but I had 3 punctures, in one tyre, in one day...so it was time for a new pair. The local tyre centre wanted £186 each for new 245 MPSS, so I nixed them and went with 255 Vredestein Ultrac Vortis - I wouldn't have chosen to go so wide, but that's what they had for £50 each less than the Michelins.

With the compliant suspension and ace damping, they grip so well in the dry that I will have to try very hard to see if I can induce a flickering traction light!

Have you fitted the M3 vert front ARB yet? I just bought one, but I'm not going to fit it yet - I want to replace my front tyres first to see if fitting 225 or 235 fronts neutralises the handling. I am wondering whether fitting just the front bar will make it understeer more. (I had M3 front and rear ARB on my 135i).

Are your Bobcat pads much of an upgrade over the OE pads? I'm fairly sure this one is on BMW pads as it has full BMW history.
I had the Ultrac Vortis on an Evo9 i had they are not a bad tyre, i swapped to MPSS on that car due to spring series i was doing and it being best tyre for class, never notived huge amount of difference but didnt havecar long, too many electric traction aids i couldnt switch off!

I wouldnt go 235 on front you might have tyre contact issues, 225 is plenty :)

Yes the M3 ARB went on while doing other jobs on front end and it feels good, no noticeable increase in understeer and with my stage2 plates so around 1.7deg negative camber front end is very planted on turn in, however the stock soft rear springs did cause a small amount of understeer when really pushing on, while they are ideal on road (and track in wet) offering a good balance of comfort/handling but on dry track a few fast sections at Croft it would start to push front wide as i punched on the gas pedal mid corner, little smoother on pedal and touch more extra lock was enough to correct it though so not terrible, would of been nice to try the BMWP firmer rear springs on same section as suspect they would of been much more suited but its a road car i keep having to remind myself :D

Bobcat is only a small step up in performance over stock BMW pads really, it does make a nice road pad setup with improved bite but quiet and low dusting but as the cost is nearly as much as our track XP pads its not worth it for most, ok for me i can just make them as i need them :D
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by Toed64 » Thu May 17, 2018 3:53 pm

THETYRANT wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:18 pm
Toed64 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:13 pm
...
Have you fitted the M3 vert front ARB yet? I just bought one, but I'm not going to fit it yet - I want to replace my front tyres first to see if fitting 225 or 235 fronts neutralises the handling. I am wondering whether fitting just the front bar will make it understeer more. (I had M3 front and rear ARB on my 135i).

Are your Bobcat pads much of an upgrade over the OE pads? I'm fairly sure this one is on BMW pads as it has full BMW history.
I had the Ultrac Vortis on an Evo9 i had they are not a bad tyre, i swapped to MPSS on that car due to spring series i was doing and it being best tyre for class, never notived huge amount of difference but didnt havecar long, too many electric traction aids i couldnt switch off!

I wouldnt go 235 on front you might have tyre contact issues, 225 is plenty :)

Yes the M3 ARB went on while doing other jobs on front end and it feels good, no noticeable increase in understeer and with my stage2 plates so around 1.7deg negative camber front end is very planted on turn in, however the stock soft rear springs did cause a small amount of understeer when really pushing on, while they are ideal on road (and track in wet) offering a good balance of comfort/handling but on dry track a few fast sections at Croft it would start to push front wide as i punched on the gas pedal mid corner, little smoother on pedal and touch more extra lock was enough to correct it though so not terrible, would of been nice to try the BMWP firmer rear springs on same section as suspect they would of been much more suited but its a road car i keep having to remind myself :D

Bobcat is only a small step up in performance over stock BMW pads really, it does make a nice road pad setup with improved bite but quiet and low dusting but as the cost is nearly as much as our track XP pads its not worth it for most, ok for me i can just make them as i need them :D
Thank you - so Vortis in 225/40 it will be. They have a significantly squarer section than the MPSS, so the tyre tread is wider on the same size tyre anyway.

Then I'll fit my front E93 M3 bar...& start thinking about brakes and rear bar...I like the idea of fitting F series front brakes, but the 130i brakes are not bad & I wonder if decent pads would be enough of an improvement for road driving. Are XP8s too hardcore for road use?

I think that all this modification is becoming a bit more than a habit!
2008 E81 130i
2010 E82 135i - now sold

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by THETYRANT » Thu May 17, 2018 4:51 pm

Toed64 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:53 pm
Thank you - so Vortis in 225/40 it will be. They have a significantly squarer section than the MPSS, so the tyre tread is wider on the same size tyre anyway.

Then I'll fit my front E93 M3 bar...& start thinking about brakes and rear bar...I like the idea of fitting F series front brakes, but the 130i brakes are not bad & I wonder if decent pads would be enough of an improvement for road driving. Are XP8s too hardcore for road use?

I think that all this modification is becoming a bit more than a habit!
The stock brakes have plenty of performance even on stock pads for road use if all in good order, however the bonus of the F series calipers is they release the pads better than the stock sliding caliper setup, if you jack a wheel up and press the brake and release it then try and rotate the wheel you will see what i mean, with the stock sliding calipers and its heavy duty antirattle spring it drags the pad on the disc for awhile before it gets knocked back, with the Brembos the pad comes straight back off disc so the wheel is as easy to turn straight after brake application as it is after driving for while, obviously not a big thing on road but on track it helps keep pad temps down, also the ageing 130i calipers prone to sticking as well so another good reason to upgrade :)

All this said if calipers are in good shape with no binding they are fine, upgrading pads is an option but for road only use XP8 is probably overkill unless you dont mind the extra dust and possible squeal etc, i used to leave them in all time but nowadays with much more gentle road driving i swap them in and out for track use.
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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Re: Facelift 130i with E-LSD ?

Post by supercati » Sun May 27, 2018 2:26 pm

130i E81 2007 LHD - Sparkling Graphite Metallic / Boston Terra - CDV Delete - 135i ESD with resonator delete - LED Blacklines - RIP :(
130i E81 2008 LHD - LSE / Boston Terra - Complete HiFi Retrofit - CDV Delete - LED Blacklines - BMWP SSK -

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