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Git-r's road/track progress M135i

41K views 487 replies 26 participants last post by  git-r2 
#1 ·
Greetings everyone, my first proper thread, one I've been hoping to make for a while, my search is now over!! :spotman:

Firstly, I wanted to thank folk for the great forum and advice, fingers crossed I'll give a bit back through this thread :)

I've been a petrolhead since birth, initially not too keen on speed but that developed! I enjoy anything with wheels....

For over ten years I've been running highly boosted geriatric Datsuns around most tracks of the UK with a few other interesting cars alongside.

The last few years have seen my driving become less bad enabling me to put some benchmark lap times for the 'new' cars I've had and also to try and improve the times for the Datsun.

I use Brands Indy circuit as my comparison, it's so short that even with my failing memory I can remember where it goes :D

Times so far:

R32 GTR Nissan: 52.6
Megane RS 250: 56.6
E46 M3 : 57.9 (from memory)
Audi A6 1.9 tdi: 1:00 +

To give an idea of these times the 4wd clubman class time attack record is 52.8.

I'm hoping the 1er will be quicker than the Megane. From memory a relatively standard 1M can do 54's so think around this time should be possible.

Initially I was looking at the 140 having taken one for a day long test drive. What a car! Amazed with the power, refeinment and economy. However, the 135 will suit my needs better although I haven't driven one yet - fingers crossed I won't be disappointed!

'My' car (that I haven't even seen yet!) is coming as a BMW used car. It has adaptive suspension (That I'm so keen to have as it'll be used mostly on the road), HK sound and lots of other options that aren't really necessary. I've left a refundable deposit just in case.

Picking it up on Tuesday fingers crossed. I have booked a place at Snetterton on Wednesday but will probably take the Datsun.... and break it... again... :redface:

Hope people might be interested in how I get on, please ask if you'd like to see any of my other 'babies' in action... mostly sideways :D

Also hope to meet a few of you :)

Cheers
Sam
 
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#329 ·
Blind Pugh said:
git-r2 said:
Blind Pugh said:
Sam,

My thread on my MPBBK upgrade . With brake duct covers removed - zero issues on the various TD's I took my car to, and I used DOT5.1 BF too.

I assume you had removed the front brake ducts cover in the wheel arch liner - see this BB thread
BP
Thanks Dave, great thread. These cars are so complicated with having to code in new sized brakes! Roughly how much did it cost to do?

Yes the brake duct cover is removed. I'm not sure the early cars ever got the cover.
Parts [mix of new and used] were about half the price of MPBBK - new bolts/fasteners, SS hoses, DOT 5.1 BF, MPBBK discs, M4 sport and MPBBK rear pads and used but as new condition calipers.

Install was DIY and coding was done by BMW - they charged me 3/4 hour labour but whole got flashed up to date. Coding not essential but I found brakes a tad too binary and post coding, the ability to regulate brakes esp at the top of the brake pedal was most noticeable improvement.
Thanks Dave :)
 
#330 ·
bentaylor said:
Just on the brake fluid point.

Just because a brake fluid is rated as DOT 5.1 does NOT make it a good fluid, and especially does not make it a god fluid for on track. FWIW most race fluids with high boiling points are DOT 4....

which fluid did you use as I am struggling to find a BMW fluid that is DOT 5.1 rated?

The OE BMW fluid is DOT 4 and has a dry boiling point (no water contamination) of 230degc and a wet boiling point (water contamination) of 155degc.

I use ATE type200 (used to be called super blue or super gold) as its £15 a litre from Euro car parts, DOT 4 with boiling points of 280degc(dry) and 198degc(wet).

Just as an FYI there are better fluids out there, but they cost significantly more (also these are all competition fluids and all DOT4)

Endless RF650 323 C 218 C (£40 per 0.5l bottle)
Motul RBF600 312 C 216 C (£15 per 0.5l bottle)
Motul RBF660 325 C 204 C (£20 per 0.5l bottle)
AP Super 600 310 C 210 C (£20 per 0.5l bottle)
Castrol SRF 310 C 270 C (£50 a litre bottle)

Whilst searching these prices I did just find some VERY well priced Gulf competition fluid. dry boiling point of 325degc and only £11 a bottle!

edit: just to add I've not tracked my BMW yet but on my clio 172 and my 350Z I was at the limits of the ATE TYP200 and starting to lose the brakes towards the end of long sessions (10 laps+), the 350Z even ended up with TYP200 in the clutch as the OE fluid boiled on track :lol2:
The BMW being heavier and significantly more powerful will be even harder on the brakes so I would recommend TYP200 minimum tbh

Also worth looking into high temp pads if you haven't already? I swear by Carbon Lorraine. Literally don't fade ever but increase disc wear rates a lot
Huge thanks for explaining that, and yes you're absolutely right about the bmw fluid being dot 4 not dot 5.1 as I thought!

I've heard lots of good things about carbon lorraine pads and am definitely considering changing pads for a more track focussed set.

Good to knownyor experience running your Clio and 350.

Lots to think about, thanks again mate :cool2:
 
#331 ·
Blind Pugh said:
bentaylor said:
FWIW most race fluids with high boiling points are DOT 4....

Just as an FYI there are better fluids out there, but they cost significantly more (also these are all competition fluids and all DOT4)

Endless RF650 323 C 218 C (£40 per 0.5l bottle)
Motul RBF600 312 C 216 C (£15 per 0.5l bottle)
Motul RBF660 325 C 204 C (£20 per 0.5l bottle)
AP Super 600 310 C 210 C (£20 per 0.5l bottle)
Castrol SRF 310 C 270 C (£50 a litre bottle)

Whilst searching these prices I did just find some VERY well priced Gulf competition fluid...
Yup - Opie are selling Castrol React SRF as well at very good price !!!

Just went to buy this and it isn't SRF on offer. Just Castrol react. Checked the boiling points and that's only 280degc dry and 190degc wet - so not great.
Srf is still £50 a litre lol

I'm grabbing the gulf stuff to upgrade my clio before the next trackday and going to get some for the shelf ready to do the bmw in the future
 
#332 ·
git-r2 said:
bentaylor said:
Just on the brake fluid point.

Just because a brake fluid is rated as DOT 5.1 does NOT make it a good fluid, and especially does not make it a god fluid for on track. FWIW most race fluids with high boiling points are DOT 4....

which fluid did you use as I am struggling to find a BMW fluid that is DOT 5.1 rated?

The OE BMW fluid is DOT 4 and has a dry boiling point (no water contamination) of 230degc and a wet boiling point (water contamination) of 155degc.

I use ATE type200 (used to be called super blue or super gold) as its £15 a litre from Euro car parts, DOT 4 with boiling points of 280degc(dry) and 198degc(wet).

Just as an FYI there are better fluids out there, but they cost significantly more (also these are all competition fluids and all DOT4)

Endless RF650 323 C 218 C (£40 per 0.5l bottle)
Motul RBF600 312 C 216 C (£15 per 0.5l bottle)
Motul RBF660 325 C 204 C (£20 per 0.5l bottle)
AP Super 600 310 C 210 C (£20 per 0.5l bottle)
Castrol SRF 310 C 270 C (£50 a litre bottle)

Whilst searching these prices I did just find some VERY well priced Gulf competition fluid. dry boiling point of 325degc and only £11 a bottle!

edit: just to add I've not tracked my BMW yet but on my clio 172 and my 350Z I was at the limits of the ATE TYP200 and starting to lose the brakes towards the end of long sessions (10 laps+), the 350Z even ended up with TYP200 in the clutch as the OE fluid boiled on track :lol2:
The BMW being heavier and significantly more powerful will be even harder on the brakes so I would recommend TYP200 minimum tbh

Also worth looking into high temp pads if you haven't already? I swear by Carbon Lorraine. Literally don't fade ever but increase disc wear rates a lot
Huge thanks for explaining that, and yes you're absolutely right about the bmw fluid being dot 4 not dot 5.1 as I thought!

I've heard lots of good things about carbon lorraine pads and am definitely considering changing pads for a more track focussed set.

Good to knownyor experience running your Clio and 350.

Lots to think about, thanks again mate :cool2:
No problem at all! :)
 
#333 ·
bentaylor said:
Blind Pugh said:
bentaylor said:
FWIW most race fluids with high boiling points are DOT 4....

Just as an FYI there are better fluids out there, but they cost significantly more (also these are all competition fluids and all DOT4)

Endless RF650 323 C 218 C (£40 per 0.5l bottle)
Motul RBF600 312 C 216 C (£15 per 0.5l bottle)
Motul RBF660 325 C 204 C (£20 per 0.5l bottle)
AP Super 600 310 C 210 C (£20 per 0.5l bottle)
Castrol SRF 310 C 270 C (£50 a litre bottle)

Whilst searching these prices I did just find some VERY well priced Gulf competition fluid...
Yup - Opie are selling Castrol React SRF as well at very good price !!!

Just went to buy this and it isn't SRF on offer. Just Castrol react. Checked the boiling points and that's only 280degc dry and 190degc wet - so not great.
Srf is still £50 a litre lol

I'm grabbing the gulf stuff to upgrade my clio before the next trackday and going to get some for the shelf ready to do the bmw in the future
Sorry - my mistake - different product and I didn't read the small print !

Castrol React SRF whilst not cheap is probably the fit-and-forget BF of choice if wanting BF that can last longer and still perform, be it as for DD with odd TD's with minimal intervention.
 
#334 ·
Blind Pugh said:
bentaylor said:
Blind Pugh said:
Yup - Opie are selling Castrol React SRF as well at very good price !!!

Just went to buy this and it isn't SRF on offer. Just Castrol react. Checked the boiling points and that's only 280degc dry and 190degc wet - so not great.
Srf is still £50 a litre lol

I'm grabbing the gulf stuff to upgrade my clio before the next trackday and going to get some for the shelf ready to do the bmw in the future
Sorry - my mistake - different product and I didn't read the small print !

Castrol React SRF whilst not cheap is probably the fit-and-forget BF of choice if wanting BF that can last longer and still perform, be it as for DD with odd TD's with minimal intervention.
Is it less hygroscopic than normal SRF, which needed changing regularly?
Motul RB600 was good enough for my 1740kg 720hp GT-R at Spa.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#335 ·
godzilla said:
Blind Pugh said:
bentaylor said:
Just went to buy this and it isn't SRF on offer. Just Castrol react. Checked the boiling points and that's only 280degc dry and 190degc wet - so not great.
Srf is still £50 a litre lol

I'm grabbing the gulf stuff to upgrade my clio before the next trackday and going to get some for the shelf ready to do the bmw in the future
Sorry - my mistake - different product and I didn't read the small print !

Castrol React SRF whilst not cheap is probably the fit-and-forget BF of choice if wanting BF that can last longer and still perform, be it as for DD with odd TD's with minimal intervention.
Is it less hygroscopic than normal SRF, which needed changing regularly?
Motul RB600 was good enough for my 1740kg 720hp GT-R at Spa.
Yes - has a far higher wet boiling point so can out-perform RBF, even when well saturated with water !!!
 
#336 ·
Thanks for the replies chaps, interesting educational reading :)

I think the garage I used for my 32 puts motul fluid in, maybe the same stuff as Dave mentions.

Speaking of the 32 it was incredible at Bedford on Monday :spotman:

I was braking much later and obviously going much faster than in the 1, made me realise how slowly I was driving the 1 because of the brakes.

The 32 clocked a 2:40 which makes it the second fastest lap of all time on Harry's lap timer - yeeeeehaaaaaaaa!!!

There's not much info to compare that time but I reckon if I could get one of my racer mates to drive it they'd knock at least a couple of seconds off!

Here's the lap for anyone interested, had to swerve to avoid noise meters before anyone says how crap my lines were lol!

 
#337 ·
git-r2 said:
Thanks for the replies chaps, interesting educational reading :)

I think the garage I used for my 32 puts motul fluid in, maybe the same stuff as Dave mentions.

Speaking of the 32 it was incredible at Bedford on Monday :spotman:

I was braking much later and obviously going much faster than in the 1, made me realise how slowly I was driving the 1 because of the brakes.

The 32 clocked a 2:40 which makes it the second fastest lap of all time on Harry's lap timer - yeeeeehaaaaaaaa!!!

There's not much info to compare that time but I reckon if I could get one of my racer mates to drive it they'd knock at least a couple of seconds off!

Here's the lap for anyone interested, had to swerve to avoid noise meters before anyone says how crap my lines were lol!

Sam - good work fella - how are the AD08R's holding out on yr Datsun ?
 
#338 ·
Cheers Dave, they're barely legal (have done a lot of skids!) and could do with being changed but otherwise all good. Still in shape and giving ok grip, much better than rs-r etc :)
 
#339 ·
git-r2 said:
Thanks for the replies chaps, interesting educational reading :)

I think the garage I used for my 32 puts motul fluid in, maybe the same stuff as Dave mentions.

Speaking of the 32 it was incredible at Bedford on Monday :spotman:

I was braking much later and obviously going much faster than in the 1, made me realise how slowly I was driving the 1 because of the brakes.

The 32 clocked a 2:40 which makes it the second fastest lap of all time on Harry's lap timer - yeeeeehaaaaaaaa!!!

There's not much info to compare that time but I reckon if I could get one of my racer mates to drive it they'd knock at least a couple of seconds off!

Here's the lap for anyone interested, had to swerve to avoid noise meters before anyone says how crap my lines were lol!

That looks fast mate ! Nice driving
 
#341 ·
It's been about a year since I got the car and I'm still loving it:)

I've sold my 32, over 12 years of ownership between 2 x R32 GTR's.

With the cash from that I was considering upgrading the ugly 1 to an M4 comp and just having one car, it's a pretty stupid idea as the 1 is lighter and obviously so much cheaper. The depreciation over a few years on the M4 would be more than the 1 cost!

So my plan is to modify the 1 to make it better on track and stop killing its tyres whilst trying to keep it ok as an only car.

Considering all sorts so please shout up with suggestions. Currently thinking h+r -15mm lowering springs, millway camber plates, -2.4 ish front, -2 rear, not sure about toe.

Thinking of maybe a sports cat, inter cooler and proper remap.

Hopefully that would give the right side of 400bhp with ridiculous torque :)

The main thing would be to stop it from eating its tyres, not sure if these mods would do that though...
 
#342 ·
Wider rubber over-heats less easily, so I reckon your first job should be getting some 245's on the front and 255+ on the back. IE, new wheels.

Please can you update your signature to remind me what you've modified so far Sam?

Or, used 2014 M4? There are some proper low mileage bargains about now, which should have pretty good residuals.
 
#343 ·
marco_polo said:
Wider rubber over-heats less easily, so I reckon your first job should be getting some 245's on the front and 255+ on the back. IE, new wheels.

Please can you update your signature to remind me what you've modified so far Sam?
Thanks Marco, yes I was thinking about new wheels although I'm not sure they'd make a difference to tyre wear as the current lean and lack of camber would mean it would still only corner on the outside edge of the tyre.

The only thing modified on the car so far is M4 LCA's and racechip. Will get my signature updated pronto! :)

Yes was looking at the early M4's, bargain pricing already but they're so heavy. I'd just end up with the same tyre wearing issues I already have but on a heavier and more expensive car :(
 
#344 ·
git-r2 said:
It's been about a year since I got the car and I'm still loving it:)

I've sold my 32, over 12 years of ownership between 2 x R32 GTR's.

With the cash from that I was considering upgrading the ugly 1 to an M4 comp and just having one car, it's a pretty stupid idea as the 1 is lighter and obviously so much cheaper. The depreciation over a few years on the M4 would be more than the 1 cost!

So my plan is to modify the 1 to make it better on track and stop killing its tyres whilst trying to keep it ok as an only car.

Considering all sorts so please shout up with suggestions. Currently thinking h+r -15mm lowering springs, millway camber plates, -2.4 ish front, -2 rear, not sure about toe.

Thinking of maybe a sports cat, inter cooler and proper remap.

Hopefully that would give the right side of 400bhp with ridiculous torque :)

The main thing would be to stop it from eating its tyres, not sure if these mods would do that though...
Good spring choice and perhaps pair them with shorter bump stops & B6 damptronic dampers to retain adaptive ?

I visited Ross walker at Ross Sport nr Ely in Cambs and he's running M2 in the Time Attackl series - he was complimentary abt Millway CP's on his m2.

If wishing to run -2.4deg upfront - as per MP's advice you will need to consider wider rubber to maintain decent contact patch for DD duties. I would aim at a square set 8.5" wide alloys with 255/35/18 all round that way you can swap wheels F&R + L&R to even out wear etc

Link below - AW m235i from USA owned by a guy called Rob Walker - he had F3x 441m 8.5" et47 with 255 all round with 5mm spacers & ~-2.5deg upfront IIRC






BTW there's chap on M2 FB grp [Ciaron Mckee works at Dyno Remaps] selling a near new F series N55 Wagner Comp evo2 FMIC for £600

BP
 
#345 ·
Not sure about wider tyres if youre running more camber, never heard that one before .......... :?

Anyway, I know mine is E82 but Id imagine most will apply to yours as well:


Since that post Ive added BMW Performance Seats - expensive but make so much difference to chassis feedback its insane, you could always go for a cheaper version but definitely worthwhile, Ill probably stick it on Cups before long too. The car is actually "done" now, the only thing I want to look at is the throttle maps as it could be a bit more precise but I can live with it, its good for burnouts anyway :lol2:
 
#346 ·
Blind Pugh said:
[

Good spring choice and perhaps pair them with shorter bump stops & B6 damptronic dampers to retain adaptive ?

I visited Ross walker at Ross Sport nr Ely in Cambs and he's running M2 in the Time Attackl series - he was complimentary abt Millway CP's on his m2.

If wishing to run -2.4deg upfront - as per MP's advice you will need to consider wider rubber to maintain decent contact patch for DD duties. I would aim at a square set 8.5" wide alloys with 255/35/18 all round that way you can swap wheels F&R + L&R to even out wear etc

Link below - AW m235i from USA owned by a guy called Rob Walker - he had F3x 441m 8.5" et47 with 255 all round with 5mm spacers & ~-2.5deg upfront

BTW there's chap on M2 FB grp [Ciaron Mckee works at Dyno Remaps] selling a near new F series N55 Wagner Comp evo2 FMIC for £600

BP
Huge thanks for that Dave, I'm still exploring that link you sent about Rob Walker and his vorshlag camber plates, also some other useful info I've found on that site :)

I've emailed bilstein about dampers but they've said they don't have any adaptive suspension for my car and aren't sure when it will become available which is strange seeing as you've found links to them on eBay! I'm not sure the b6 is such a track design though I'm sure it'd be better than stock.

It's such a small world as I've sprinted with some Ross sport cars before and seen many of their prepped cars on track.

Square set of wheels would be ideal, the bmw ones on the pics you shared look ace.

Hoping to get some time to make some phone calls today and get things moving, very exciting :)
 
#347 ·
docwra said:
Not sure about wider tyres if youre running more camber, never heard that one before .......... :?

Anyway, I know mine is E82 but Id imagine most will apply to yours as well:


Since that post Ive added BMW Performance Seats - expensive but make so much difference to chassis feedback its insane, you could always go for a cheaper version but definitely worthwhile, Ill probably stick it on Cups before long too. The car is actually "done" now, the only thing I want to look at is the throttle maps as it could be a bit more precise but I can live with it, its good for burnouts anyway :lol2:
Thanks for that link mate, excellent thread!

I remember reading something about the m performance seat but frommemory would be out of my budget, do you have any pics of them in your car? :)

I've never liked bmw throttle mapping, it's way too sensitive for me, same on my old e46, m button just gave less modulation so never used it, seems like a gimmick to me.
 
#348 ·
docwra said:
Not sure about wider tyres if youre running more camber, never heard that one before .......... :?
Docwra - simply physics chap -

- lean the tyre in at the top too much for -2.5 to -3 deg camber - TD utopia - and DD trade off is reduced contact patch on terra firma
- this may have consequences such as longer DD braking distances
- made worse if car nose dives under hard braking causing geo to change, making contact patch even less.......

Wider tyre mitigates the above, in part.

BP
 
#349 ·
But this only applies when youre braking, even on a daily camber will give more corner grip which is why most people add it. Why would you be braking that hard repeatedly on the road anyway? Most will run lower pressures on track which would overcome any loss in performance relative to the road.

Not arguing with your physics, just never come across the issue before. As with most things suspension related its all a payoff, personally Ill sacrifice a little braking grip for more mid corner control. :)
 
#350 ·
git-r2 said:
Thanks for that link mate, excellent thread!

I remember reading something about the m performance seat but frommemory would be out of my budget, do you have any pics of them in your car? :)
They are horribly expensive but TBF they hold their money, Im looking at them as more of an investment than a purchase - youd also need a loom to fit them into an F2* car I think.

They are beautiful though:

 
#351 ·
docwra said:
git-r2 said:
Thanks for that link mate, excellent thread!

I remember reading something about the m performance seat but frommemory would be out of my budget, do you have any pics of them in your car? :)
They are horribly expensive but TBF they hold their money, Im looking at them as more of an investment than a purchase - youd also need a loom to fit them into an F2* car I think.

They are beautiful though:
They are indeed, but aren't they just Recaro Sportster CS seats with the M Perf logo embroidered in?

And what needs to be wired in, was thinking about doing this too but wanted to know how much work it is
 
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