My Suspension quest! 130i

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jimmy-120sport
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by jimmy-120sport » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:25 am

How do people rate koni STR shocks? I already have eibach pro springs but think shocks are past their best, I’m looking for some reasonably priced replacements! Or is there anything better for the money?
E87 120i sport (N46) Eibach pro-kit, BBS LM reps

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:29 am

jimmy-120sport wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:25 am
How do people rate koni STR shocks? I already have eibach pro springs but think shocks are past their best, I’m looking for some reasonably priced replacements! Or is there anything better for the money?
Koni STR are the budget ones, ive not tried them personally but if it was me and looking for a cheaper option i would (and did briefley) go with Bilstein B4 dampers, the cheaper Koni STR i would be wary of longevity where as the Bilsteins stuff seems solid for sensible price and readily available just make sure to change bumpstops while its apart for shorter BMWP ones at very least.

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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jimmy-120sport
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by jimmy-120sport » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:43 am

Thanks Ian, was looking at the B4’s, just searched and spotted B6’s on eBay for £440 for the 4 shocks. Was looking to go for bmwp bumpstops at the same time. Are the rear subframe control arms (front, upper & rear) a direct fit as per the M3 LCA’s and tension struts are on the front? Was looking at just poly bushing my stock rear arms but after seeing the price of the bushes would probably be cheaper just getting rear M3 arms off of Amazon lol
E87 120i sport (N46) Eibach pro-kit, BBS LM reps

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:54 am

jimmy-120sport wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:43 am
Thanks Ian, was looking at the B4’s, just searched and spotted B6’s on eBay for £440 for the 4 shocks. Was looking to go for bmwp bumpstops at the same time. Are the rear subframe control arms (front, upper & rear) a direct fit as per the M3 LCA’s and tension struts are on the front? Was looking at just poly bushing my stock rear arms but after seeing the price of the bushes would probably be cheaper just getting rear M3 arms off of Amazon lol

B6's are uprated dampers so depends if you want to go firmer ? , if you go B6 dampers you dont need front bumpstops as they are internal due to being inverted damper on fronts, possibly come with there own bumps for rear as well. The B4 are direct replacement for OEM so need to use factory bumpstops and recommend changing front and rear for BMWP ones, or Koni on rear for more travel/comfort.

Rear arms some are interchangable with M3 but not all, cant remember from memory which is different but sure someone will chime in who has done that swap.

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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deelite
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by deelite » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:39 pm

THETYRANT wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:19 am
Glad my ramblings helped, after driving a stock 130i again yesterday for 1st time in awhile it was interesting to feel how different it was to my old Koni setup.
Thanks again, your ramblings were very helpful...i see that your looking again for a 130i...it's a very pleasant car to drive with an improved suspension.
I am very curious about your new suspension tweaks.... :D
Did you ever consider or do you know somebody with the Eibach Pro Streets S coilovers?
These seem to have the lowest springrates in a coilover on the market:

M sport: 120 F/350 R
Birds B1: 148 F/340 R
Eibach Pro Kit/Bilstein B12: 148 F/456 R
Eibach Pro Street S: 134 - 271 F Progressive/456 R Linear
KW v1-v3: 190-256 F Progressive/545-570 R Progressive
KW Street Comfort: 286 F/572 R
Bilstein B16: 385 F/615 R

The dampers of the Eibach Pro Street are the same inox dampers of KW v1, rear spring is the same as the Pro Kit one. Height adjusting is the same polyamide system as with the KW. I suppose the dampers are valved to the much lower spring rates of the Pro Street...

So in theory these low initial spring rate in the front and the relative low rate in the rear in combination with the twin tube low pressure dampers must provide a comfortable ride at lower speeds and not to heavy bumpy roads if set at M sport height or just a tad lower. While with performance driving, turningins should be flatter and faster due to rising progressive spring rates in front.
They are also a lot cheaper than the other coilovers.
BMW E81 130i M Edition Sport 10/2011 manual BMWP intake Black Sapphire M 261 Ferric Gray Michelin PSS

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:58 pm

I did look into the Eibach Pro-street coilovers but couldnt find any real feedback on people them, also the spring rates people have listed for them i dont think can be right as they would never hold the front of the car up on there own with those, the stock spring rate is not much less and that relys on the bumpstop to assit the coil spring so not sure how that would work out on the Pro-street kit, would be interesting to try it but i think Koni yellow will be prefered choice again going forward, but we will see.

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

desliu99
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by desliu99 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:59 pm

Hi Ian,

Decided to get the m3 front control and tension arms fitted with stage 1 plates as you know.
I appreciated that the toe was going to be well out, so car was horrid to drive on rough road.
Initially it also had violent thuds from draincovers and catseyes.

After geo at Northampton motorsport (would recommend), toe was adjusted from 1.39+ toe to 0.08+. Can post pictures if people are interested. The car achieves -1.2deg of camber, which is a little lower than I was expecting but once the car is lowered on Bilstein B16 suspension, should increase a bit more.

Steering feel is a bit better than stock, better off-centre feel is notable due to caster but want to track it to give more detailed assessment.
The surprise was the massive reduction in NVH noise, which i was hoping would happen, but did not really expect it.

My theory is: with toe that far out of spec, longitudinal load converted into lateral load would be significant when hitting drain or curb as the wheels are encouraged to steer. Furthermore, to fit the arms we had file off the serrated edge on the subframe, which would of reduced the friction of the joint. So I think increased lateral load, plus reduced joint friction was causing the arm to knock the bolt hard into the subframe, causing huge bangs. So I would advise others the obvious. geo your car asap, and also try to avoid filing the subframe serration's if possible. I don't have a problem now, but would not advise it.

next step bilstein b16's :)

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:33 am

That camber figure seem a touch low, I don't think Ive see anyone get under -1.4 with the stage1 plates and M3 arms and more typically around -1.6 some a little more, did you get the plates pushed fully in towards the engine and arrow on plates pointing forwards ? could just be car wasn't fully settled when measuring and as you say once you get the B16 kit on and lower it a tad It will increase negative camber.

If you have a printout of final alignment you can post would be good.

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

desliu99
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by desliu99 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:35 am

Hi Ian,

Yeh, I will get the printout once I can find my phone cable. 95% sure we pushed the struts fully inboard. both LH and Rh have similar camber.

I was equally a little surprised to not have more.
I have Apex aero 7 wheels with 235 section tyres that maybe influencing the results.

Or maybe others have lowered suspension with stage 1 plates, which would increase it.

Do you have any experience on tyre to aftermarket suspension clearance? As I say looking at B16 Bilstein dampers but concerned that a lowered spring seat is just going to hit top of tyre if lowered.

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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:32 pm

Hmm what width and offset are your wheels ? I had issues with the Ohlins kit on my 135i and only just had tyre clearance.
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

AidanZ130
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by AidanZ130 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:42 pm

I have the B14 kit on my 130 which I believe is basically the same as the B16 minus the adjustability in the shocks? Front wheel clearance is close for me running 235 tyres and a pre-fl 8” rear wheel (et47 I think) at the front.

One thing I find with the B14 is the rear is very bouncy, I think it maybe has too much rebound? Recently been looking at swapping the rear shocks for the adjustable B6 variant so I can dial out the pogo effect. Anyone tried the adjustable B6s?
Sparkling Graphite Pre-FL 130i
BMWP Front Brakes, BMWP Exhaust, Bilstein B14, Rear Subframe Inserts, 135i Rear Brake Conversion, M3 Differential, 8"/8.5" 208m wheels, AD08-R Tyres 235/255, BMWP Black Grilles, LED Angel Eyes, FL Rear Lights

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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:26 pm

AidanZ130 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:42 pm
I have the B14 kit on my 130 which I believe is basically the same as the B16 minus the adjustability in the shocks? Front wheel clearance is close for me running 235 tyres and a pre-fl 8” rear wheel (et47 I think) at the front.

One thing I find with the B14 is the rear is very bouncy, I think it maybe has too much rebound? Recently been looking at swapping the rear shocks for the adjustable B6 variant so I can dial out the pogo effect. Anyone tried the adjustable B6s?
If it is bouncy it is usually not enough rebound damping like you get with stock dampers/springs and stock long bumpstop, although depends on the sort of bounce your getting, does the B14 kit come with it own rear bumpstops ? or do you reuse the BMW ones as i know some kits do but cant remember which.

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

desliu99
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by desliu99 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:03 am

Hi Ian

18x8J et45 with 235/40/18. tyre seems to sit just below stock spring pan, may have 10mm clearance. thinking that lowering will be limited,
It depends if length at vehicle load of supplied spring are shorter than stock.

Sent you the camber plate results to work email as can't work out how to upload easily here.

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:25 am

desliu99 wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:03 am
Hi Ian

18x8J et45 with 235/40/18. tyre seems to sit just below stock spring pan, may have 10mm clearance. thinking that lowering will be limited,
It depends if length at vehicle load of supplied spring are shorter than stock.

Sent you the camber plate results to work email as can't work out how to upload easily here.
You might struggle with clearance then it just depends where the Bilstein collar sits at your desired ride heights, certainly on my old Ohlins setup those wheels wouldn't of cleared without raising car above stock height, there was maybe 2mm clearance between tyre and adjuster collar with stock wheels on my car at -10mm ride height, of course the Billy kit probably wont be same but I suspect it wont be far away.

You could just buy some Koni sport adjustable dampers and Eibach springs then you know they will fit (same damper spring platform position as stock) and nice ride and handling, just limited on springs so depends how far you want to lower/stiffen etc, also adjustment on rears bit fiddly but in reality once set you don't need to change anyhows I found.

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

Kubricks
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Kubricks » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:30 am

THETYRANT wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:25 am
You might struggle with clearance then it just depends where the Bilstein collar sits at your desired ride heights, certainly on my old Ohlins setup those wheels wouldn't of cleared without raising car above stock height, there was maybe 2mm clearance between tyre and adjuster collar with stock wheels on my car at -10mm ride height, of course the Billy kit probably wont be same but I suspect it wont be far away.

You could just buy some Koni sport adjustable dampers and Eibach springs then you know they will fit (same damper spring platform position as stock) and nice ride and handling, just limited on springs so depends how far you want to lower/stiffen etc, also adjustment on rears bit fiddly but in reality once set you don't need to change anyhows I found.

Ian
Hi Ian, I can't believe I have missed your thread about the Ohlins R&T! How's the car doing with the softer 300lbs/in front spring? Did you manage to balance it with damping?

Initially I was not interest on the Ohlins due to the price, but after I have SCed my car balance seems to be falling apart and that the B1 just won't cut it anymore, which shouldn't be suprising since everything is right at the limit while the car is still N/A. I have since done some research on coilovers;
- Meister-R. which I think is rebranded BC. Tried a lot of BC here where I live and i don't like them.
- KWV2~3. They run progressive spring, I don't prefer that.
- KW Clubsport 3-way. They run linear spring but the spring rate is just too high for any street driving.... i don't think I can take 600+ lbs/in rear spring on street lol. Also don't think the damper can work with much softer spring either.
- PSS10. Again progressive spring so no. I tried it on another E87 and don't like it.
Have I missed any obvious choice apart from those mega expensive custom order stuff?

Which brings me to the Ohlins R&T which runs linear spring and damping a good digressive curve. 400lbs/in rear spring seems doable while 342lbs/in front seems hard, the 300lbs/in arrangement you do might just do the trick? What spring length are you running currently anyway? I have 18" 8.5" ET44 running 235/40/18 as front tyre so strut clearance might be a problem.

By the way, thanks for all the information you provided in this site!
130i M Sport manual | ESS Supercharged | Custom remap
Birds B1 Suspension set | Vorshlag camber plate | Quaife Limited slip differential | M3 Chassis parts
18" Pro-drive GC-014i wheels

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