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E8x Camber plate project

76K views 326 replies 75 participants last post by  Antoine_31 
#1 ·
Update: Camber Plate development for the E8x & E9X models is now complete as following thread, but for those wanting to know the outcome without reading it all then below is camber details of various options, if you want a set get in touch.

Stage1 plates on their own give -0.7 to-1deg, or coupled with M3 LCA this goes to -1.5 to -1.9deg.

Stage2 plates on their own give -1.5 to -1.8deg, or coupled with M3 LCA this goes to -2.5 to -3deg.

Above numbers are based on stock or near to stock ride heights and 18" wheels/tyre size , lots of things can alter the actual camber with ride height & wheel & tyre size being most influential.

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Ok to follow on from my Ohlins thread I thought I would start a new one about my camber plate project and here it is :)

So today Ive been busy with some machining on the laser cut plates I had done for my camber plate project, for those not in the know these fit on top of front suspension top mounts to shift them across and give more negative camber, these are just my prototype ones and I think ive been a bit conservative with the offset compared to others ive seen but still im hoping they should give approx -1.5degrees along with M3 LCA I have, plan is to get -2degrees but will need a revision to plate I think, but will see once I get them fitted.

Quick pic below of progress so far, just need a couple more of the capitive bolts out of my topmounts as only had 4 in my spares and they can go on, also ignore the nasty paint job as I just gave them a dusting to prevent rusting and have been handling them before paint was dry!...will test fit as they are and see what camber they give and go from there, might start making them to sell but we will see.



Cheers
Ian
 
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#177 ·
THETYRANT said:
Couple more sets ready for packing as picture, Stage2 are sold (were actually meant to go on my car!) but Stage1 are available as buyer has other car issues to sort first so if you want a set get in touch.

Now that im back in a 130i im going to get some of the Stage2 plates onto what is otherwise stock suspension to see what camber it gives, im pretty sure nobody who has taken Stage2 plates has done this and all have M3 LCA or other mods, if not let me know :)

Just out of curiosity, is installing these relatively easy or does the whole strut need to come off? Would be interested in the Stage 2's
 
#178 ·
Wayno said:
Just out of curiosity, is installing these relatively easy or does the whole strut need to come off? Would be interested in the Stage 2's
Its not a difficult job but does require some care and attention as well as understanding of what your doing to make sure its done safely, strut doesn't need to come off the car as after removing the ARB drop link you can carefully lower strut/hub down to get access to topmount bearing support to fit the camber plate, its a little fiddly tightening up bolts to hold plates on but not too bad, once fitted its carefully lifted back up into place making sure not to damage studs going through the holes in strut tower, also making sure orientation is correct.
You need to tap out the factory studs and also make sure factory camber pin bump is removed before fitting plates, also the whole thing is fully reversible if needs be by taking off plates and refitting factory studs.

Im hoping to fit a set onto my car this weekend so will try and get some pictures if I have time.

Cheers
Ian
 
#179 ·
THETYRANT said:
Wayno said:
Just out of curiosity, is installing these relatively easy or does the whole strut need to come off? Would be interested in the Stage 2's
Its not a difficult job but does require some care and attention as well as understanding of what your doing to make sure its done safely, strut doesn't need to come off the car as after removing the ARB drop link you can carefully lower strut/hub down to get access to topmount bearing support to fit the camber plate, its a little fiddly tightening up bolts to hold plates on but not too bad, once fitted its carefully lifted back up into place making sure not to damage studs going through the holes in strut tower, also making sure orientation is correct.
You need to tap out the factory studs and also make sure factory camber pin bump is removed before fitting plates, also the whole thing is fully reversible if needs be by taking off plates and refitting factory studs.

Im hoping to fit a set onto my car this weekend so will try and get some pictures if I have time.

Cheers
Ian
They are quite easy to fit if you are confident on the tools
I would charge £30 to fit these takes just over an hour :)
 
#180 ·
Ok fitted a set of my Stage2 plates onto my otherwise stock (bar camber pin mod by previous owner) suspension E81 130i today, took me about 1.5hours but some of that's was fiddling about checking things as not fitted stage2 myself before so wanted to go over a few things carefully, they are a little more fiddly than the stage1 I fitted onto last car due to the larger offset of plate on stage2 but still no real problems to do, its just getting in with a small 13mm spanner onto nuts and using allen key socket down through the hole in strut tower to tighen things up that's fiddly.

Anyhows all done now and geo results from my basic equipment below,

Front Toe Before = 0
Front Toe After = slight Toe Out 20' (will leave as this for awhile and see how it drives)

Front Camber before with just camber pin mod = -0.4deg
Front Camber after Stage2 plates= -1.7deg :D

Ride Height before and after = 340mm ( arch lip to wheel centre), the extra 5mm of camber plate is as I thought offset by tipping strut over to get camber.

Happy enough with the numbers and will have to try and get it checked with more accurate gear as my camber kit especially isn't meaga accurate, looking at wheels I think camber is probably a little more.

Im on winter tyres at moment so cant push it much but will get out for a drive later to see how It feels.

Ian
 
#181 ·
Quick update, got a few miles on this week with Geo as above post and felt good even on winter tyres, wanted to get Geo back to Zero Toe to directly compare with pre-camber plates settings so managed to get time to do that last night ( after freeing off the stupid corrosion magnet design BMW track rod ends!) adjusted a couple of flats on each track rod and now its at Zero toe with -1.7deg camber on front which feels very nice from short drive to work, hard to say how much its improved on the chunky tread winter tyres but does feel sharper and more stable in the corners than before the camber plates, cant wait to get my MPSS tyres back on and get it on track to see how it goes and what shoulder wear is like.

Steering feel on the Epas cars is never great compared to older Hpas steering but I think its improved with the extra camber, maybe im just more used to it now though :)

Ian
 
#182 ·
Was changing my front dampers and springs at weekend and while it was all apart i got a couple of pics of the camber plates fitted to struts but out of the car, hopefully give some insight into how these fit and work and to give people a better idea of how it all goes together as its hard to see when fitting them without removing dampers from car.
See below for the pictures of the stage2 plates i have on my car, these have already been on a few weeks and about 500miles with stock dampers and was good to see how they are holding up and to check everything is still nice and tight etc.


 
#183 ·
Thanks to Ian I now have stage 2 camber Plates fitted to my E82 123D. Suspension wise it has front 1M LCAs and the Bilstein B12 Pro kit fitted.

The following pictures are before and after fitting the camber Plates and B12 kit. The LCAs were fitted for both. Very pleased overall so big thanks Ian for the plates!

For those with a keen eye and notice before had 18" wheels and after 17", it's because I had the first done in summer and the second done on my winter wheel set!
BEFORE

AFTER
 
#186 ·
Poormans said:
More caster is good right? More feedback, more stability?
Yes to a point and this amount should give nice improvement in stability and feel like you say, which is probably why my cars Epas steering feels better with the plates on.

Ian
 
#189 ·
vhenax said:
so i have read few pages of this thread but i have a question , can i install them on stock M suspensions on a 130i ? and do i need to buy any other things like m3 LCA or these plates would be enough ? thanks
Yes you can no further mods needed, all depends on car usage and how much negative camber you want, see below for more info.

Stage1 Plates - fitting these with no other mods gives same sort of camber numbers as fitting M3 LCA approx. -0.7 to -1deg camber, bonus of camber plates is they dont push the wheel outwards like you get with M3 arms which can lead to wheel clearance issues if running spacers or wider wheels, M3 arms are a good mod though.

Stage2 Plates - Fitting these with no other mods (what I currently have apart from koni dampers) gives more camber so around -1.5 to -1.7deg which is what I ended up with.

Obviously fitting camber plates along with M3 arms gives even more camber, as a rough guide Stage1 with M3 LCA gives anything from -1.5 to -1.8deg, fitting Stage2 with M3 LCA gives anything from -2.5 to -3deg, all depends on springs and things on final numbers.

Ian
 
#190 ·
THETYRANT said:
vhenax said:
so i have read few pages of this thread but i have a question , can i install them on stock M suspensions on a 130i ? and do i need to buy any other things like m3 LCA or these plates would be enough ? thanks
Yes you can no further mods needed, all depends on car usage and how much negative camber you want, see below for more info.

Stage1 Plates - fitting these with no other mods gives same sort of camber numbers as fitting M3 LCA approx. -0.7 to -1deg camber, bonus of camber plates is they dont push the wheel outwards like you get with M3 arms which can lead to wheel clearance issues if running spacers or wider wheels, M3 arms are a good mod though.

Stage2 Plates - Fitting these with no other mods (what I currently have apart from koni dampers) gives more camber so around -1.5 to -1.7deg which is what I ended up with.

Obviously fitting camber plates along with M3 arms gives even more camber, as a rough guide Stage1 with M3 LCA gives anything from -1.5 to -1.8deg, fitting Stage2 with M3 LCA gives anything from -2.5 to -3deg, all depends on springs and things on final numbers.

Ian
Hi Ian
You mention above about the m3 arms pushing the wheel out. How much are we looking at? Keep meaning to get some spacers but now don't want to get some that may be too much if I go the lca route. Front wheels 18 - 7.5 - et49. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Paul.
 
#191 ·
pem10 said:
Hi Ian
You mention above about the m3 arms pushing the wheel out. How much are we looking at? Keep meaning to get some spacers but now don't want to get some that may be too much if I go the lca route. Front wheels 18 - 7.5 - et49. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Paul.
The M3 LCA are approx 10mm longer than stock so roughly centre of wheel is 10mm further out, top of wheel not quite so much as wheel is tipped at an angle as well, i found on my last 130i with M3 LCA and stock wheels, 225/40-18 tyres along with 12mm front spacers tyre just scrubbed a touch inside arch at certain lock and bumps etc, no spacer no problem but i needed to trim a touch of bumper/headlight bracket and also made sure arch lip on wing was pushed back flush and was then ok, all depends on tyres though as not all are same on outer shoulders despite being sized same if that makes sense.

HTH
 
#192 ·
THETYRANT said:
pem10 said:
Hi Ian
You mention above about the m3 arms pushing the wheel out. How much are we looking at? Keep meaning to get some spacers but now don't want to get some that may be too much if I go the lca route. Front wheels 18 - 7.5 - et49. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Paul.
The M3 LCA are approx 10mm longer than stock so roughly centre of wheel is 10mm further out, top of wheel not quite so much as wheel is tipped at an angle as well, i found on my last 130i with M3 LCA and stock wheels, 225/40-18 tyres along with 12mm front spacers tyre just scrubbed a touch inside arch at certain lock and bumps etc, no spacer no problem but i needed to trim a touch of bumper/headlight bracket and also made sure arch lip on wing was pushed back flush and was then ok, all depends on tyres though as not all are same on outer shoulders despite being sized same if that makes sense.

HTH
Perfect sense thanks for that info. Was maybe going to get some 12mm spacers so will rethink that. Probably 5mm now just waiting for some spare funds to magically appear! Forgot about the tyres its on asym 3s 225 - 40.
 
#193 ·
pem10 said:
Perfect sense thanks for that info. Was maybe going to get some 12mm spacers so will rethink that. Probably 5mm now just waiting for some spare funds to magically appear! Forgot about the tyres its on asym 3s 225 - 40.
Thats what i ended up doing on the next car to prevent rubbing issues, problem is 5mm spacer on front might not leave enough of the hub spigot sticking through it to locate the wheel on centrally, on my 135i it didnt on front but was ok on rear as hub sticks out a little more at back, i think i used a 3mm on front in the end and might have some spare ones if you go down that route so let me know.
 
#194 ·
THETYRANT said:
pem10 said:
Perfect sense thanks for that info. Was maybe going to get some 12mm spacers so will rethink that. Probably 5mm now just waiting for some spare funds to magically appear! Forgot about the tyres its on asym 3s 225 - 40.
Thats what i ended up doing on the next car to prevent rubbing issues, problem is 5mm spacer on front might not leave enough of the hub spigot sticking through it to locate the wheel on centrally, on my 135i it didnt on front but was ok on rear as hub sticks out a little more at back, i think i used a 3mm on front in the end and might have some spare ones if you go down that route so let me know.
I had standard MSport springs and dampers on my 135i, but fitted M3 LCAs. With Vredestein Ultrac Vortis in 225/40/18, the front arches were nicely filled and there would not have been much space for spacers. These Vredesteins are very square-shouldered in comparison to the Contis I had before, or the Avon ZZ5s I fited after them.

My 130i had M3 LCAs for a few weeks before I got some Koni Sports and a pair of Ian's stage 1 plates fitted. The front tyres are MPSS 215/45/18 and look a bit stretched on the rims. The LCAs brought the tyres out a bit to fill the arch better, the plates have tipped the top in a little, so the tyres are now well inside the arch. I really don't mind about this, but I did think that I'll buy Vredesteins for the front in 225/40/18 next time. This will fill the arches a lot more, but will also give me a tad more grip up front.

So, my tip is to get the tyres you want and the suspension mods completed before you decide on the size of spacers you want to fit - the tyre tread width varies A LOT between brands.

Ian - thank you for all your freely shared suspension quest advice and for the camber plates. I was really not sure that I was going to get on with my 130i after the 135i, but now that I have Konis, bump stops, M3 LCAs, your stage 1 plates and rear subframe bush inserts, the car is an absolute joy to drive and I am rewarded every time I go out. I have concluded that my 130i is now every bit as good a car as my 135i was, the suspension is better, it's just not as phenominally fast!

One other benefit is that the LCAs lowered the front of the car to the point where the front skirt just touched 2 of the sleeping policemen on my commute. Your camber plates have lifted the front just sufficiently for the skirt to clear those fecking things...result!
 
#199 ·
jonwilli said:
I'm sure its on the thread somewhere but do you need an alignment done if you just fit the standard camber plates with stock arms i.e. just drop the dampers down, fit plates and bolt back up?
With Stage1 plates it hardly affects the Toe setting so depending what its at now you might be ok, best to get it checked to be sure though.

To fit yes drop damper down and bolt plates on after tapping out studs and removing camber pin, you do need to disconnect ARB/drop link to allow it to drop down far enough to get good access.
 
#200 ·
Alright i went to another shop with lase equipment .
Left camber -1.39
Right camber -1.23
Toe left 0.08
Toe right 0.09

I guess my car is different :( , perhaps i ll add the m3 lca .

Also @thetyrant , you think with a different suspension would i get better results ?
 
#201 ·
vhenax said:
Alright i went to another shop with lase equipment .
Left camber -1.39
Right camber -1.23
Toe left 0.08
Toe right 0.09

I guess my car is different :( , perhaps i ll add the m3 lca .

Also @thetyrant , you think with a different suspension would i get better results ?
Hmm that is odd, what about ride height as per my pm ? if you measure from centre of wheel to edge of arch on wing we can see if your sitting a little higher maybe which would make a reduction in camber.

Your camber now will make car handle nice enough and help prevent outer edge of tyre scrubbing, if you still have issues then M3 LCA will give you another -0.7 ish so then -2 as a guess.
 
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