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[40 BHP EASY POWER GAIN] Are you, would you be, more JB+ or Bluespark? Or other ?

9K views 48 replies 20 participants last post by  eddbluespark 
#1 ·
#27 ·
Jahjaman said:
louisjack23 said:
Jahjaman said:
So... is it 340PS to 415PS (75PS gain)
Or 372PS to 415PS (43PS gain)

?
Look at the dyno, that is the answer. They obviously have to quote standard manufacturer power levels on the website but these are also backed up with a dyno showing what the car actually made.

They are not claiming a 75bhp difference. They are saying BMW sold you a car with ''340bhp'' and after the box is fitted they have had a car tested at 415bhp. That is all.
I'm sorry, but that's complete bull****.

They have a dyno saying 372 to 415. Yet their marketing material says different.

If you are saying they "have to quote standard manufacturing power", then they can't use the 415 number - they aren't comparing like for like.

It's 100% misleading and deceptive.
Why can't they use the 415bhp number, the car made 415bhp?

Show me any tuning company that states any stock figure other than what the manufacturer claims. There is nothing deceptive about anything. JB4, JB+,TMC, all the same. Revo, APR, MRC to go into other marques, name one that shows standard power as being anything other than manufacturer claimed power.

The car made 370bhp stock and ran 415bhp tuned. That's it, what's misleading? If you're genuinely not clued up enough to realise what's going on you should be leaving your car well alone.

I actually wonder sometimes what sort of people are in this group, haven't met any yet unlike previous car groups. But it appears the majority don't have a clue what they are talking about. Non Petrolheads buying a fast car and joining a forum sounds about right.
 
#28 ·
louisjack23 said:
Jahjaman said:
louisjack23 said:
Look at the dyno, that is the answer. They obviously have to quote standard manufacturer power levels on the website but these are also backed up with a dyno showing what the car actually made.

They are not claiming a 75bhp difference. They are saying BMW sold you a car with ''340bhp'' and after the box is fitted they have had a car tested at 415bhp. That is all.
I'm sorry, but that's complete bull****.

They have a dyno saying 372 to 415. Yet their marketing material says different.

If you are saying they "have to quote standard manufacturing power", then they can't use the 415 number - they aren't comparing like for like.

It's 100% misleading and deceptive.
Why can't they use the 415bhp number, the car made 415bhp?

Show me any tuning company that states any stock figure other than what the manufacturer claims. There is nothing deceptive about anything. JB4, JB+,TMC, all the same. Revo, APR, MRC to go into other marques, name one that shows standard power as being anything other than manufacturer claimed power.

The car made 370bhp stock and ran 415bhp tuned. That's it, what's misleading? If you're genuinely not clued up enough to realise what's going on you should be leaving your car well alone.

I actually wonder sometimes what sort of people are in this group, haven't met any yet unlike previous car groups. But it appears the majority don't have a clue what they are talking about. Non Petrolheads buying a fast car and joining a forum sounds about right.
So what happens if you're car doesn't make 370, it makes 340 as stated by the manufacture. You would expect to get the 415 BHP they claim the tuning box gives.
 
#29 ·
louisjack23 said:
Why can't they use the 415bhp number, the car made 415bhp?
Of course they can. But they can't compare 415 to 340.

They can't compare a non-dyno number to a dyno number with unknown corrective factors.

Show me any tuning company that states any stock figure other than what the manufacturer claims
Plenty. All Subaru tuners will quote the wheel horse power number - the number they tested as per the stock car on their specific Dyno.

The car made 370bhp stock and ran 415bhp tuned. That's it, what's misleading?
Well then why don't they quote those numbers in their marketing material?

I actually wonder sometimes what sort of people are in this group, haven't met any yet unlike previous car groups. But it appears the majority don't have a clue what they are talking about. Non Petrolheads buying a fast car and joining a forum sounds about right.
Speak for yourself mate
 
#30 ·
louisjack23 said:
Show me any tuning company that states any stock figure other than what the manufacturer claims. There is nothing deceptive about anything. JB4, JB+,TMC, all the same. Revo, APR, MRC to go into other marques, name one that shows standard power as being anything other than manufacturer claimed power.
JB4 doesn't even quote stock numbers. They just say the "increased" amount.

And use a dyno which shows the stock and tuned plots.



So there you go.
 
#33 ·
Jahjaman said:
louisjack23 said:
Show me any tuning company that states any stock figure other than what the manufacturer claims. There is nothing deceptive about anything. JB4, JB+,TMC, all the same. Revo, APR, MRC to go into other marques, name one that shows standard power as being anything other than manufacturer claimed power.
JB4 doesn't even quote stock numbers. They just say the "increased" amount.

And use a dyno which shows the stock and tuned plots.



So there you go.
''How about up to 60hp to the wheels (80hp crank) on a completely stock car on pump gas for a B58''

Straight from the JB4 website. Show me a graph where a stock B58 has made 340bhp and then after using just a JB4 has made 420bhp
 
#34 ·
louisjack23 said:
Jahjaman said:
louisjack23 said:
Show me any tuning company that states any stock figure other than what the manufacturer claims. There is nothing deceptive about anything. JB4, JB+,TMC, all the same. Revo, APR, MRC to go into other marques, name one that shows standard power as being anything other than manufacturer claimed power.
JB4 doesn't even quote stock numbers. They just say the "increased" amount.

And use a dyno which shows the stock and tuned plots.



So there you go.
''How about up to 60hp to the wheels (80hp crank) on a completely stock car on pump gas for a B58''

Straight from the JB4 website. Show me a graph where a stock B58 has made 340bhp and then after using just a JB4 has made 420bhp
Mate where does it say the JB made 420?
That graph I quoted was for one of the maps.

Where does it say anywhere on the website that the JB achieves a gain from 340 to 420? There is no mention of "manufacturer stock power = 340" as per your original argument.

Or do you not understand what this debate is about?
 
#35 ·
Jahjaman said:
louisjack23 said:
Jahjaman said:
JB4 doesn't even quote stock numbers. They just say the "increased" amount.

And use a dyno which shows the stock and tuned plots.



So there you go.
''How about up to 60hp to the wheels (80hp crank) on a completely stock car on pump gas for a B58''

Straight from the JB4 website. Show me a graph where a stock B58 has made 340bhp and then after using just a JB4 has made 420bhp
Mate where does it say the JB made 420?
That graph I quoted was for one of the maps.

Where does it say anywhere on the website that the JB achieves a gain from 340 to 420? There is no mention of "manufacturer stock power = 340" as per your original argument.

Or do you not understand what this debate is about?
It states on the website that it will make 80hp at the crank over stock. Show me a graph that backs this up.
 
#36 ·
louisjack23 said:
Jahjaman said:
louisjack23 said:
''How about up to 60hp to the wheels (80hp crank) on a completely stock car on pump gas for a B58''

Straight from the JB4 website. Show me a graph where a stock B58 has made 340bhp and then after using just a JB4 has made 420bhp
Mate where does it say the JB made 420?
That graph I quoted was for one of the maps.

Where does it say anywhere on the website that the JB achieves a gain from 340 to 420? There is no mention of "manufacturer stock power = 340" as per your original argument.

Or do you not understand what this debate is about?
It states on the website that it will make 80hp at the crank over stock. Show me a graph that backs this up.
I'll repeat:

Where does it say anywhere on the website that the JB achieves a gain from 340 to 420? There is no mention of "manufacturer stock power = 340" as per your original argument.

I'm done.
 
#37 ·
Jahjaman said:
louisjack23 said:
Jahjaman said:
Mate where does it say the JB made 420?
That graph I quoted was for one of the maps.

Where does it say anywhere on the website that the JB achieves a gain from 340 to 420? There is no mention of "manufacturer stock power = 340" as per your original argument.

Or do you not understand what this debate is about?
It states on the website that it will make 80hp at the crank over stock. Show me a graph that backs this up.
I'll repeat:

Where does it say anywhere on the website that the JB achieves a gain from 340 to 420? There is no mention of "manufacturer stock power = 340" as per your original argument.

I'm done.
The original argument was falsifying claims! You are correct in that they don't specify stock output, however, they falsely claim that they can produce 80bhp over standard. They can't can they! Yet everyone licks it's arse and sings it's praises.

All I have been doing and trying to get across is that the Bluespark is a well made unit that produces great results which are equal to the JB4 for £160 delivered. Some people clearly don't like that!
 
#40 ·
Jahjaman said:
jimBabyBMW said:
Despite all the extensive testing and development, they test one car on one dyno and make some claim that no-one achieves. It's not very credible.
It's credible as long as the numbers are comparable.
There are so many variables in a dyno number - correction factors, what gear the pull was made in, the humidity and temperature at the time of pull.

Most important thing is same car, same dyno, same day.

That's the 372 to 415 number. That number is credible

But the marketing material stating 340 to 415? That's complete fallacy.
In order to be credible it needs to be repeatable and consistent. Testing a car that makes way above standard hp, isn't consistent to start with.
 
#41 ·
louisjack23 said:
Jahjaman said:
louisjack23 said:
''How about up to 60hp to the wheels (80hp crank) on a completely stock car on pump gas for a B58''

Straight from the JB4 website. Show me a graph where a stock B58 has made 340bhp and then after using just a JB4 has made 420bhp
Mate where does it say the JB made 420?
That graph I quoted was for one of the maps.

Where does it say anywhere on the website that the JB achieves a gain from 340 to 420? There is no mention of "manufacturer stock power = 340" as per your original argument.

Or do you not understand what this debate is about?
It states on the website that it will make 80hp at the crank over stock. Show me a graph that backs this up.
It says "up to" not "you will get" 80bhp.
 
#44 ·
Rob.H said:
Are you the manufacturer of the blue spark box Louis, or do you just drink a lot?
I'm not no :rollseyes: In all fairness I was having a hell of a day and ended up venting a bit on here!

Nevertheless I stand by my points that the Bluespark box performs as well as a JB4 for a fraction of the costs. There's no need to bash a good product, the more there are for our cars the better. It seems everyone is happy with one product running the market but this isn't the way to move forward in performance or the cost of getting said performance.
 
#45 ·
louisjack23 said:
Rob.H said:
Are you the manufacturer of the blue spark box Louis, or do you just drink a lot?
I'm not no :rollseyes: In all fairness I was having a hell of a day and ended up venting a bit on here!
Well mate, let me just say that I'm sorry that you were not having a good day and I apologise if I added to that with our debate.

Just note that I never bashed on the performance gains of any product, including BlueSpark. I simply questioned the ethics behind the marketing material of said product which, imo, misrepresented the data by comparing numbers that weren't comparable.

372 to 415, I haveno issues with. But 340 to 415 and I believe that has grounds to be misleading and deceptive advertising (comparing non-dyno numbers to dyno numbers).
 
#46 ·
louisjack23 said:
Rob.H said:
Are you the manufacturer of the blue spark box Louis, or do you just drink a lot?
I'm not no :rollseyes: In all fairness I was having a hell of a day and ended up venting a bit on here!

Nevertheless I stand by my points that the Bluespark box performs as well as a JB4 for a fraction of the costs. There's no need to bash a good product, the more there are for our cars the better. It seems everyone is happy with one product running the market but this isn't the way to move forward in performance or the cost of getting said performance.
I'm glad you took that in good spirit :lol2:
 
#49 ·
Hi, for those of you who don't know I am Edd from Bluespark. We have been getting a lot of interest from this forum and have recently arranged to become a forum sponsor.

I appreciate everyone's comments in this thread, but thought it would be useful to explain (at least from our point of view) some of the points that members have raised.

Dyno testing
In May this year we developed our unit for the Mx40i. We always go to the Performance Centre Sunderland for dyno testing. They are very knowledgeable guys with absolutely top spec kit. They are also the official UK distributor for Burger Motorsports products, so results on their dyno should give a very good comparison with the most widely used existing products out there for this car. Their dyno operator also has absolutely no incentive to make our product look better than it is.

To establish baseline figures the dyno is always warmed up with a couple of runs. This is only fair as the first run always gives (relatively significantly) lower figures, as the car is not warmed up, and neither are the bearings in the dyno etc. This effect is shown quite well in this video, also of an M140i: This car "gains" 9bhp from the first to the second run.

Our first run gave horsepower somewhere in the low 360's, with the car settling at around 370 bhp after a few stock runs. We know this is high compared with BMW's figures, however it is what it produced on a known good dyno once warmed up. It is also very consistent with other Mx40i's tested on this dyno with and without JB4's. We could have shown the first run of the day as our stock figure, but we didn't as this would not be comparing like with like, and to my mind would give us less credibility.

Regardless of opinion, according to this dyno, this car made 415bhp with our box fitted.

Marketing
I also understand the comments made by some members regarding the figures shown on our website. We have not in any circumstances tried to mislead anyone. Our website displays the manufacturer's figure under the "BEFORE" title. This is linked to a database which holds the vehicle data for the hundreds of vehicles that we cover. It matches the data that you select when searching for your vehicle. We can't change this to say "BMW M140i 370bhp", as no such model exists.

This isn't normally any issue as cars usually output fairly near their factory figure. I accept that we could correct our "AFTER" figure to stock power plus the gains over measured stock. However, there are a few reasons we haven't done that:

1. None of our competitors would, or do.

2. It wouldn't be the power output that was actually measured.

3. It would then not be remotely comparable with runs done on the same dyno for the JB4 and JB+ products, which is really what any prospective purchaser wants to see.

I apologise if anyone found our site misleading. To hopefully help clarify things I have had a statement added to the product page specifying that the "before" figure relates to the manufacturer's quoted figure.

Product issues
Our products are, and have always been designed and made here in the UK. This is a proper British made product, not something 95% made in China, then finished off here and sold as "British made".
As with any product new to the market, our Mx40i unit had a couple of teething issues which we have worked with our customers to overcome.

The first few wiring looms were made here by hand in a very small batch and didn't have the cut-out for the boost tang added. This was picked up immediately and resolved.

A small proportion of customers were seeing an error code due to barometric pressure mis-match. This was resolved with a firmware update over a month ago, which has been rolled out onto all new units for this model.

In Summary
It is important not to get too hung up on absolute bhp figures. Only a 10% difference on a car of this power output is 34hp. Personally I think that stating peak bhp gains, rather than peak bhp numbers makes most sense, as any error between dynos is not compounded. Unfortunately "what horsepower will it make?" is what the majority of cutomers want to know.

Since our testing, another forum member has independently tested our unit on his car and seen gains of +51hp and +126Nm.

If any members have any questions or comments about anything to do with our boxes, I would like to extend an open inviation to call us or come and see us. We will happily answer your questions, sort you out a cup of tea and biscuits and show you how everything is put together.

Best Regards,
Edd
 
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