120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by jacobniell » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:39 pm

ecotuneuk wrote:Actually they run higher boost to reduce emissions achieving around lambda 1.3... If you reduce the air closer to lambda 1.0 the car is noticeably cheaper to run as the pumping efficiency of the engine is improved and there is next to no loss in power and in some cases there is actually a gain in performance.

Proper diesel tuning quite often contradicts common ideas :-)
Hi there happy New Year

It seems like you know what you are talking about when playing around with the small 120d engines. I was wondering if I would like to get around 210-220 hp on my 120dA 163hp engine would that be possible with out damaging either the engine, turbo or gearbox?
Is it possible to get a hybrid turbo for the 120d engines, I have looked but have only found that some were looking into having them made (in the future). If I get the bmw performance IC installed do I need to have the charge pipes changed also? After the install would it be possible for you to make the tuning over the internet as I am from Denmark :roll:

Thanks for helping out, any comment from other users are of cause most wellcome :o

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by Rjudgey » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:36 pm

What year is your 120d? If it's a 2004 then you most likely will have a Garret vacuum operated turbo then yes you can bolt on a Alpina D3 turbo for more boost. If your in the same boat as Geeto and myself and have a newer car from 2005 with mitsubishi turbo then you can't get a hybrid, the turbo can give more boost but Stan thinks the spool would become quickly warped and ruin itself and destroy the turbo and possibly engine.

If your after 210-220 you'll need quite an aggressive boost on your map so you'll have to run a few mods to make sure nothing melts, as for gearbox that's fine just change oil for decent stuff every 30k miles, engine that's fine too Alpina D3's run 200bhp std and can go to 270bhp mapped from Stan and haven't had any major failures that he is aware about, main thing with engine is that it's relatively low miles and change oil every 7-10k miles, if it's high mileage e.g. over 100k or more then you'll need to modify the breather for the PCV system to reduce back pressure inside the engine, otherwise you'll risk the turbo blowing it's oil seal and the engine will destroy itself on it's own engine oil running out of control which trust me isn't a pleasant experience! ( I know so!) if the engines done 150k or more don't even think about this unless you plan on swapping in new engine real soon.

Clutch and flywheel will be fine if it's done lowish miles if not then replace with new items or uprate with Sachs kit not cheap but you won't have to replace it for a long time! Rest of the drive train is fine axles, prop and diff, although diff oil should be changed every 30k same as gear oil.

BMWP intercooler won't fit unless you run modified charge pipe from the turbo end so you'll have to cut and shunt both the old one and a new 120d one to fit or go with a HG motorsport Intercooler as they're your side of the Channel any fitment issues would be easier to deal with hopefully mine was just a one off and they're fitment issues are sorted out, it can be gotten around though and the actual intercooler is a very good design and well made it's just the hose connectors they had made were crap about .5mm machined too much on the inside which creates poor fit and air leak.

You'll have to get the Exhaust side sorted out 2.5" mandrel bent piping with a couple of sports silencers small ones should suffice, and then one of Stan's Decat pipes to reduce the heat from the turbo. One other thing have your EGR removed from the map this will stop it from clogging up the intake and inlet ports, you can also remove the swirl flaps Geeto has done this and could be accounting for his slightly higher bhp figure to mine, also you could remove the EGR valve and replace with a new intake without the valve this increases air flow in but to be honest probably only makes a few bhp increase at best. With a DMS map my car made 210bhp and 300lbft torque with everything std but did have tendency to chew up early turbos later revisions seemed to last a little longer boost was set at a reasonably high 1.8bar.

Other than that Stan can send you the map on his Iflash units he has a few you can swap between enviro map is very good gets my car around 190bhp and 310lbft and around 55mpg avg sometimes higher in summer. His maxitune map is around 215bhp and 335lbft which is probably the one you'll be wanting and the ecotune map sits in the middle of these two if you look at my dyno sheet posted up here you'll see the differences. Geeto was lucky enough to get mapped by Stan directly which has resulted in some impressive HP gains so if you really want that extra 5-10bhp you'll have to make a trip to Scotland if not and if your engine is in good shape (mine had 25k miles), then you should get similar figures to mine.
120d Msport, Leather, HK 7 Sound, LED plate lights, Goodyear Assym 2, ECOTUNE I flash, 2.5" Downpipe & Exhaust, EGR gone, Modded air intake/box, HG intercooler, Eibach kit, Eibach ARB, powerflex bushes, M3 wishbones, M3 tension arms, BMWP brakes.

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by sonicvanman » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:19 pm

Rjudgey this D3 turbo can you get them new from anywhere? as we're never guna a find a scrap one or do you know the model number maybe Garrets still do a simaller version.

I really wana get a HG ic but im put off by your bad experence & there lack of communication but if i could garrenty it would be a direct fit i would its the easier option , i do like geeto's ic at only £100 plus the pipe work, but im not to sure about cutting away at the bumper.

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by Rjudgey » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:23 pm

Is yours a Garret then Sonic? Speak to Stan he can get hold of them he was doing some testing with one the other month on a E46 320cd to see how it would run not sure if he got round to fitting and testing though.
Probably best to fit the same charge pipes and I/C on the D3 330d ones I believe not sure if your original charge pipes would fit the D3 turbo sadly as Alpina don't have any spare's numbers or diagrams listed on web like realoem makes this a bit of a nightmare! Hopefully in another year and half or so I'm just gonna buy one and use it as my new daily runner and turn the 1 series into track car or maybe the other way round! lol! who knows but I'd certainly be modding the D3 what ever happens with new Brakes and M3 bits etc. Although not sure on whether to have touring for the Q look or saloon tricky choice! lol! Touring would be easier to sell to missus as could say I'm preparing for kids prams etc. she'd certainly take the bate on that one! haha!
120d Msport, Leather, HK 7 Sound, LED plate lights, Goodyear Assym 2, ECOTUNE I flash, 2.5" Downpipe & Exhaust, EGR gone, Modded air intake/box, HG intercooler, Eibach kit, Eibach ARB, powerflex bushes, M3 wishbones, M3 tension arms, BMWP brakes.

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by Tom 118 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:23 pm

I've got a 2008 118d and I've managed to have a look at the turbo and it's a garret is this usual?
Also would an alpina turbo be a good idea on mine?

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by geeto » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:58 pm

I would quite happily put the extra figures down to the simplified intercooler pipework, the pressure drop across the turbo impeller blades with reasonably rough calculations was significant.

The swirl flaps made no difference to the feel of the car with before/after driving but the intercooler did even before the remap.

The difference between going from a intercooler pipework system that uses a minimum 2" diameter to a straight 2.25" system is a very clear advantage in theory. Obviously the performance figures were good but I wouldn't say that the evidence was 100% conclusive only suggestive.

I would put my money on the intercooler allowing the slightly higher peak figures and allowing the torque curve to really stretch out mid range.

After looking into the hybrid turbo side of things the alpina turbos, or the garret hybrids, are certainly the way to go if your not electronically actuated. If you are electronically actuated the only... economically effective solution is to fit the 177bhp N47 turbo and remap to suit (Estimated costs for the whole job is approximately £1000, drive in/drive out plus second hand turbo purchase/exhaust modifications). the not so economically effective purchase is to send the original turbo way for 'Hybridising' which to my quotes back thus far is certainly going to break the bank :lol: We also do not know how well this 'hybridised' turbo would perform compared/against the n47 turbo for the cost. You could be paying lots of money for very little gain.

I'm still unsure as to my next stage with the car, I think a quick natter with stan about loosing economy etc with the n47 turbo may swing it :lol:
Tom

2006 Sparkling Graphite 120d M sport - All factory extras except sat nav!

- Custom Apexi Front mount IC
- 2.5" Turbo back SS exhaust
- EGR bypass kit
- Swirl flaps removed
- K & N filter
- Ecotune custom remap

222bhp / 477nm

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by jacobniell » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:26 pm

Rjudgey wrote:What year is your 120d? If it's a 2004 then you most likely will have a Garret vacuum operated turbo then yes you can bolt on a Alpina D3 turbo for more boost. If your in the same boat as Geeto and myself and have a newer car from 2005 with mitsubishi turbo then you can't get a hybrid, the turbo can give more boost but Stan thinks the spool would become quickly warped and ruin itself and destroy the turbo and possibly engine.

If your after 210-220 you'll need quite an aggressive boost on your map so you'll have to run a few mods to make sure nothing melts, as for gearbox that's fine just change oil for decent stuff every 30k miles, engine that's fine too Alpina D3's run 200bhp std and can go to 270bhp mapped from Stan and haven't had any major failures that he is aware about, main thing with engine is that it's relatively low miles and change oil every 7-10k miles, if it's high mileage e.g. over 100k or more then you'll need to modify the breather for the PCV system to reduce back pressure inside the engine, otherwise you'll risk the turbo blowing it's oil seal and the engine will destroy itself on it's own engine oil running out of control which trust me isn't a pleasant experience! ( I know so!) if the engines done 150k or more don't even think about this unless you plan on swapping in new engine real soon.

Clutch and flywheel will be fine if it's done lowish miles if not then replace with new items or uprate with Sachs kit not cheap but you won't have to replace it for a long time! Rest of the drive train is fine axles, prop and diff, although diff oil should be changed every 30k same as gear oil.

BMWP intercooler won't fit unless you run modified charge pipe from the turbo end so you'll have to cut and shunt both the old one and a new 120d one to fit or go with a HG motorsport Intercooler as they're your side of the Channel any fitment issues would be easier to deal with hopefully mine was just a one off and they're fitment issues are sorted out, it can be gotten around though and the actual intercooler is a very good design and well made it's just the hose connectors they had made were crap about .5mm machined too much on the inside which creates poor fit and air leak.

You'll have to get the Exhaust side sorted out 2.5" mandrel bent piping with a couple of sports silencers small ones should suffice, and then one of Stan's Decat pipes to reduce the heat from the turbo. One other thing have your EGR removed from the map this will stop it from clogging up the intake and inlet ports, you can also remove the swirl flaps Geeto has done this and could be accounting for his slightly higher bhp figure to mine, also you could remove the EGR valve and replace with a new intake without the valve this increases air flow in but to be honest probably only makes a few bhp increase at best. With a DMS map my car made 210bhp and 300lbft torque with everything std but did have tendency to chew up early turbos later revisions seemed to last a little longer boost was set at a reasonably high 1.8bar.

Other than that Stan can send you the map on his Iflash units he has a few you can swap between enviro map is very good gets my car around 190bhp and 310lbft and around 55mpg avg sometimes higher in summer. His maxitune map is around 215bhp and 335lbft which is probably the one you'll be wanting and the ecotune map sits in the middle of these two if you look at my dyno sheet posted up here you'll see the differences. Geeto was lucky enough to get mapped by Stan directly which has resulted in some impressive HP gains so if you really want that extra 5-10bhp you'll have to make a trip to Scotland if not and if your engine is in good shape (mine had 25k miles), then you should get similar figures to mine.
Hey there

Thanks for your comments, it is really appreciated :)

My car is a BMW 120d automatic produced in late 2004 but is a 2005 model. I think it is from 11 month 2004.

Would this have the Garret turbo, and would the D3 turbo from Alpina fit to the engine? What pipe work is to be used if I decide to go that route? Do I need to find one from a 330d and will they fit to my car? I have a friend who might have a 330d IC´er from an E91, would that fit? Just to clarify my car is a M-tech version with the cool front and rear bumper :lol: but also I have heard that this bumper is very close to the car and therefore not giving that much space for a new IC´er.
Regarding the gearbox, I am not sure you realize that I am driving an Automatic as this does not have the mentioned Clutch. I have looked at the original performance kit from BMW and here they upgrade the torque converter, due to the extra Nm. Is this necessary and can you get one from a 330d and use this instead?
As it is a 2005 model it is not running any particle filter so there should not be any problems getting read of the exaust gasses.

The Alpina kit would be perfect, it is a proven system that is not in any way pushing the engine to hard I would assume so this would probably be a good start, the only problem is to find the turbo etc. As I could read on the internet it seemed that the Alpina D3 was running a larger 325d turbo and also IC´er, can any confirm this, because the 325d is not running a hybrid turbo. I have also read that Alpina used the 535d fuel system.

I would love to have 250 hp and a lot of torque but it is my daily driver, so reliability is the keyword, but still even though it is my daily driver I would love to be able to have some fun in it while I am driving.

The car has done 200.000km which is approximately 125.000 miles, but the car is well maintained (full history) and only run highway miles so I am not so unsure about the engine. Can you please tell me a little about the need to modify the breather for the PCV system. I am totally lost here and do not know what that is? :lol:

I do not think I would change the exhaust as I am not looking for a too noisy system (again daily driver) but I have ordered a BMW performance exhaust as it would look quite nice to the rear bumper/ Diffusor.

Thanks again…

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by sonicvanman » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:26 pm

Rjudgey wrote:Is yours a Garret then Sonic? Speak to Stan he can get hold of them he was doing some testing with one the other month on a E46 320cd to see how it would run not sure if he got round to fitting and testing though.
Probably best to fit the same charge pipes and I/C on the D3 330d ones I believe not sure if your original charge pipes would fit the D3 turbo sadly as Alpina don't have any spare's numbers or diagrams listed on web like realoem makes this a bit of a nightmare! Hopefully in another year and half or so I'm just gonna buy one and use it as my new daily runner and turn the 1 series into track car or maybe the other way round! lol! who knows but I'd certainly be modding the D3 what ever happens with new Brakes and M3 bits etc. Although not sure on whether to have touring for the Q look or saloon tricky choice! lol! Touring would be easier to sell to missus as could say I'm preparing for kids prams etc. she'd certainly take the bate on that one! haha!
ye i think i'll have to speak to stan when i,ve got the money & see if he can source the d3 turbo & i think i wana do the ic like geeto as hes results are really good & would be worth the effort even if i do have to cut the bump away. as for you getting a D3 & which to get, it would be the touring for my hands down, i have a 335d on my list after the 1er & the kid come along (my 1er was ment for that but i dont think its guna be big enough)

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by jap001 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:08 pm

Jacob i Think The HG intercooler will fit your car also

Mine wen't on with no problems and no leaks ;)

Will be home in 2 weeks Then you cam give mé a Call ;)

You have The number i belive ;)

Jan fra bmwcd ;)
Best Regards Jan
2006 E87 120dA
1992 E34 M5T
Denmark

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by jacobniell » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:29 am

:D
jap001 wrote:Jacob i Think The HG intercooler will fit your car also

Mine wen't on with no problems and no leaks ;)

Will be home in 2 weeks Then you cam give mé a Call ;)

You have The number i belive ;)

Jan fra bmwcd ;)
Hi Jan

That is funny to find you here, but hey why not, it is the perfect forum if you own a small 1´er :D

Okay I will try to call you later to hear about your IC project and how it was to mount.

Br
Jacob

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by Rjudgey » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:47 pm

You'll have to take a picture of the turbo area and post it up here, if it's an msport all of them as far as I know are mitsubishi turbo, as for being an auto well think you'd be best leaving that alone any extra stress and it's one expensive bill to replace or repair!!

As for the D3 is used 330d clutch, gearbox, intercooler, injectors are possibly from a 535d but to be honest the piezo ones are pretty capable of dumping as much fuel in as needed the biggest restriction is lack of boost from turbo on these engines.

I'm still hoping that one day turbo dynamics will bring out a hybrid mitsubishi unit like they have for the Garret but so far nothing biggest issue is apparantly Mitsubishi not letting out the calibration details on the variable vane.
120d Msport, Leather, HK 7 Sound, LED plate lights, Goodyear Assym 2, ECOTUNE I flash, 2.5" Downpipe & Exhaust, EGR gone, Modded air intake/box, HG intercooler, Eibach kit, Eibach ARB, powerflex bushes, M3 wishbones, M3 tension arms, BMWP brakes.

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by jacobniell » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:55 am

Rjudgey wrote:You'll have to take a picture of the turbo area and post it up here, if it's an msport all of them as far as I know are mitsubishi turbo, as for being an auto well think you'd be best leaving that alone any extra stress and it's one expensive bill to replace or repair!!

As for the D3 is used 330d clutch, gearbox, intercooler, injectors are possibly from a 535d but to be honest the piezo ones are pretty capable of dumping as much fuel in as needed the biggest restriction is lack of boost from turbo on these engines.

I'm still hoping that one day turbo dynamics will bring out a hybrid mitsubishi unit like they have for the Garret but so far nothing biggest issue is apparantly Mitsubishi not letting out the calibration details on the variable vane.
Okay, I will see if I can have a picture taken of the turbo mounted on the engine today.

Was the Alpina D3 only sold as a manual or was there also an option for automatic? Normally Alpina is using the automatic as their standard probably as a gentleman agreement to BMW so they would not be to competitive towards the M-solution from BMW :lol:

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by Rjudgey » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:51 pm

Manual as std auto was a very very expensive option on alpina as they charge you extra for non std spec car and then for the extra options.
120d Msport, Leather, HK 7 Sound, LED plate lights, Goodyear Assym 2, ECOTUNE I flash, 2.5" Downpipe & Exhaust, EGR gone, Modded air intake/box, HG intercooler, Eibach kit, Eibach ARB, powerflex bushes, M3 wishbones, M3 tension arms, BMWP brakes.

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by jacobniell » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:14 pm

Hi
Now I tried taking some pictures of the turbo, but this is more or less impossible to see. Even in person it was impossible to see if there was written Garret on it.
Have a look at the pictures and see if you can see if it´s one or the other :lol: Image

Image

Image

Image

Okay sounds like most Alpina D3 E87 are Manuel cause they were pretty expensive just as standard :shock:

Thanks for helping out with the pictures, but as I mentioned I do not think that it is possible to see anything, I can mention that it seemed that there was some cables to the turbo so it might be a Mitsubishi turbo?

I found out that the car was made 4. November 2004
Last edited by jacobniell on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 120D PF tuning plan - Dyno results page 13!!!

Post by yngndrw » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:43 pm

1) Go to an image uploading site such as http://postimage.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. (Any will do, there are loads available, but the exact steps I'll give are for this one.)
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You'll see something like this:
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