120d Xdrive judder

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JohnfromEssex
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120d Xdrive judder

Post by JohnfromEssex » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:20 pm

Our 2014 120d Xdrive has developed a judder on acceleration in 2nd and 3rd, between about 1500 and 3000rpm. It is intermittent but seems to have begun after I replaced the front tyres, a couple of weeks ago. The rears are only about half worn.

I can't swap tyres front to back, as they are different sizes on this model. Turning off traction control doesn't seem to make any difference.

I have read elsewhere on here of dealers blaming the issue on the differences between tyres, front and back, and other comments that it can be the sign of a faulty transfer box. As it started happening straight after the tyres were changed, it would make sense if the former was to blame. But as the car is still in warranty for the next 3 months, if a serious fault is developing I'd like the dealer to get it sorted!

Does anyone have any experience of this problem please?
Many thanks

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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by BMW_120 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:33 pm

JohnfromEssex wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:20 pm
Our 2014 120d Xdrive has developed a judder on acceleration in 2nd and 3rd, between about 1500 and 3000rpm. It is intermittent but seems to have begun after I replaced the front tyres, a couple of weeks ago. The rears are only about half worn.

I can't swap tyres front to back, as they are different sizes on this model. Turning off traction control doesn't seem to make any difference.

I have read elsewhere on here of dealers blaming the issue on the differences between tyres, front and back, and other comments that it can be the sign of a faulty transfer box. As it started happening straight after the tyres were changed, it would make sense if the former was to blame. But as the car is still in warranty for the next 3 months, if a serious fault is developing I'd like the dealer to get it sorted!

Does anyone have any experience of this problem please?
Many thanks
Hmm.. Could be many different things but since it started happening after you changed the tyres I can only assume there's no bigger issue than that. Sounds like they are not balanced/aligned? Not sure exactly what the word is exactly in English.
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JohnfromEssex
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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by JohnfromEssex » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:46 pm

Wheel balance is perfect, there is no wheel wobble at any speed.

The juddering/hesitation feels exactly like an occasional electrical misfire on a petrol car; I originally thought it was the traction control kicking in because the tyres were new but the effect happens even with TCS deactivated. No engine warning lights and it is still pulling fine under full throttle.

I just wondered if anyone else with the 120d Xdrive had experienced the same problem...

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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by marco_polo » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:32 pm

Yes, everyone with an xDrive has suffered this, they're a bit rubbish I'm afraid.

It's the tyres/transfer box. (Fitting different size tyres slowly winds up the £2,500 transfer box, until it fails).

viewtopic.php?t=89784
viewtopic.php?t=74501&start=15
viewtopic.php?t=86026
viewtopic.php?t=101189
viewtopic.php?t=76216

etc, etc.
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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by JohnfromEssex » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:54 pm

Thank you marco_polo

For some reason, the dealer that sold the car failed to mention the X-drive weakness to us :)

Is it pretty much an accepted "issue" by the dealers now?

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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by marco_polo » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:59 pm

As long as it's demonstrate-able, get it booked in quick. I'd seriously consider fitting 4 new matching tyres on it to remove any dealer excuses.
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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:20 pm

marco_polo wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:32 pm
Yes, everyone with an xDrive has suffered this, they're a bit rubbish I'm afraid.

It's the tyres/transfer box. (Fitting different size tyres slowly winds up the £2,500 transfer box, until it fails).

viewtopic.php?t=89784
viewtopic.php?t=74501&start=15
viewtopic.php?t=86026
viewtopic.php?t=101189
viewtopic.php?t=76216

etc, etc.
Interesting Marco - Every case above seems to concern a 2013 or 2014 xDrive with the transfer box failing after between 1 to 4 years. I wonder if there was a particular weakness in 13/14 vintage boxes that has now been designed out, or it the inherent weakness tends to manifest mainly after 3 or 4 years (just of of warranty!), Not particularly worried as if I still own mine in 2 years when the warranty expires, I'll be paying for an extended warranty - too many expensive failure modes not too.

I also wonder if the OP's issue might have something to do with new tyres on front and part worns on the back. Aren't xDrives fussy about differences in rolling circumference and the issue might be exagerrated by staggered wheel sizes?
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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by marco_polo » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:29 pm

Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:20 pm
marco_polo wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:32 pm
Yes, everyone with an xDrive has suffered this, they're a bit rubbish I'm afraid.

It's the tyres/transfer box. (Fitting different size tyres slowly winds up the £2,500 transfer box, until it fails).

viewtopic.php?t=89784
viewtopic.php?t=74501&start=15
viewtopic.php?t=86026
viewtopic.php?t=101189
viewtopic.php?t=76216

etc, etc.
Interesting Marco - Every case above seems to concern a 2013 or 2014 xDrive with the transfer box failing after between 1 to 4 years. I wonder if there was a particular weakness in 13/14 vintage boxes that has now been designed out, or it the inherent weakness tends to manifest mainly after 3 or 4 years (just of of warranty!), Not particularly worried as if I still own mine in 2 years when the warranty expires, I'll be paying for an extended warranty - too many expensive failure modes not too.

I also wonder if the OP's issue might have something to do with new tyres on front and part worns on the back. Aren't xDrives fussy about differences in rolling circumference and the issue might be exagerrated by staggered wheel sizes?
marco_polo wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:32 pm
Fitting different size tyres slowly winds up the £2,500 transfer box, until it fails
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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:31 pm

marco_polo wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:29 pm
Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:20 pm
marco_polo wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:32 pm
Yes, everyone with an xDrive has suffered this, they're a bit rubbish I'm afraid.

It's the tyres/transfer box. (Fitting different size tyres slowly winds up the £2,500 transfer box, until it fails).

viewtopic.php?t=89784
viewtopic.php?t=74501&start=15
viewtopic.php?t=86026
viewtopic.php?t=101189
viewtopic.php?t=76216

etc, etc.
Interesting Marco - Every case above seems to concern a 2013 or 2014 xDrive with the transfer box failing after between 1 to 4 years. I wonder if there was a particular weakness in 13/14 vintage boxes that has now been designed out, or it the inherent weakness tends to manifest mainly after 3 or 4 years (just of of warranty!), Not particularly worried as if I still own mine in 2 years when the warranty expires, I'll be paying for an extended warranty - too many expensive failure modes not too.

I also wonder if the OP's issue might have something to do with new tyres on front and part worns on the back. Aren't xDrives fussy about differences in rolling circumference and the issue might be exagerrated by staggered wheel sizes?
marco_polo wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:32 pm
Fitting different size tyres slowly winds up the £2,500 transfer box, until it fails
That'll teach me not to speed read when trying to catch up with 24hrs worth of posts. :oops:
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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by JohnfromEssex » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:34 pm

Just to bring this to conclusion, my local BMW dealer confirmed the problem and have ordered a new transfer box...fitting next week.

So well done to them for acknowledging and getting it sorted promptly; and thanks to you guys for your help on this.

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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by edbutler » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Just in case someone comes across this thread with a car out of warranty - please don't dispair. The F20 shares its XDrive Transfer Case with the E84 and those owners have found the true culprit.

The problem is not the Transfer Case, but the Actuator (motor). More specifically, its a gear within the motor housing. It turns out that this gear is plastic and repeatedly worn on the same area of the radius. You can apparently turn this around 180 degrees or or just buy a new one. have a good read at this thread:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showth ... p?t=566880

The gears can be bought for around £25 here:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/BMW-F07-F25-F10- ... SwDehZngou

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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:41 am

Really interesting (and possibly worthy of being a sticky?) but entering my F-series car details in that eBay compatibility checker, I get a message in German which translates as "The item does not fit BMW 2 Coupe 2016 F22, F87 220d xDrive."

Interestingly, on the last page of the Bimmerfest thread, there was a comment stating "warranty subject to proof that all four tires replaced at once". It was an American owner who posted that so it may relate to the BMW US warranty, but does anyone know if that applies here? Seems curious as nowhere in my manual or any other documentation does it give any advice on tyre changes or even rolling diameter differences. Not that I intend to take the chance of not changing all four tyres when the time comes, but I'd consider it dodgy and somewhat underhand if BMW tried to wriggle out of warranty cover on something that they don't advise customers about.
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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by edbutler » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:32 am

Yes it may be worth a sticky; ill try to get more conclusive info. I've just had a new set of 4 Eagle F1's fitted, thinking the problem would resolve itself (as they have equal wear, so closer circumference ~1.2% on the stock 18's), but it got far worse! The car was constantly jolting - this is partly eased by enabling Dynamic DSC. My car was "Single Lady Owner" :lol: for its first 39,000 miles and the front tyre shoulders were heavily worn, so that suggests the tyre pressures were rarely checked so my actuator is probably knackered. :roll:

Its really unfortunate that the wheels aren't an 8J rim, as we could then fit 255/35 tyres and it'd be a perfect circumference match! My car behaved faultlessly when i put a set of equally worn 16" winter wheels/tyres on.

Im not bad with car maintenance, so i just managed to bag a 2nd hand XDrive Actuator on eBay for bargain price of £130. I think BMW try to charge ~£800!? Im going to rip it apart and hopefully recondition it with new gearing and will take photos to post along the way. I can then hot-swap them and hopefully sell on to another owner having the same issue.

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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:00 am

edbutler wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:32 am
Im going to rip it apart and hopefully recondition it with new gearing and will take photos to post along the way.
That would be really useful. If you do, it should probably be a thread in the "How To" section.
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Re: 120d Xdrive judder

Post by 286bhp » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:39 am

I have just ordered a complete transfer case from BMW for a customer. BMW have just recently reduced the price of the cases to £750ish + vat for both ATC35L ( smaller cars ) and ATC45L ( X5 X6 etc), from around £3k. These are exchange items , and cost about the same as the actuator , which they come with anyway ! This pricing discount usually is the nearest BMW get to admitting a part has an inherent fault without actually saying so!
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