Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

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agm2992mga
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Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by agm2992mga » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:12 am

Morning all,

I'm new to this so would be very grateful for some guidance from your collective wisdom.
I have been doing a bit of research on what it is and understand that a lot of BMW engines in particular across their range of models start life the same but are tuned to perform differently.

Is it really true that a 116d, 118d, 120d could all be tuned up accordingly to a 125d or in between?

How does this affect insurance, however? As surely it would invalidate current insurance if we were not to tell them. And if you do declare and get it accepted, how much will it likely hike the premium?

Secondly, when you eventually come to sell the vehicle, does this make things a mess again?

Does anyone know a good, reliable and reputable outfit in Sheffield or Manchester that I could make enquiry at?

Thanks a lot to anyone for their 2 cents and experience in advance.
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GingerOtter
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by GingerOtter » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:23 pm

Hi.

Just be wary of companies telling you about crazy increases in power etc as they can be inflated and untrue. Do your research - this thread will come up with great advice I’m sure.

I’m not sure if BMW do an approved power pack increase on your car? Might be worth checking.

Warranty - yes will invalidate the engine and possibility impact the transmission warranty as well. It won’t invalidate the entire warranty but BMW can be very picky if they want to be. If you don’t own the car outright (I.e you’re on a PCP) and BMW haven’t authorised (which they won’t) then when you return it you’ll need to put back to stock. Apparently BMW can trace any engine mods even when taken off. Could be a wives tale but who knows.

Reselling - if privately it will depend on the buyer. But mods will put most people off especially on small engined diesels as they don’t want the increased fuel costs that’s why they want a diesel and/or issues with insurance and warranty.

Selling to WBAC etc - might be offered a much lower value as appeals to less people.

Insurance - you should declare all mods even tiny ones and of course it will increase your premium. Don’t declare and have an accident and the insurers find out - bye bye cover and basically you’ve committed fraud so good luck buying car insurance again. Engine mods carry one of the most expensive premium increases. I read something like a 30-50% increase.

Always speak to your insurers first before the mod - many don’t cover some mods and engine is most expensive part. Then you’re left trying to find insurance last minute.

If you’re trying to change a 118d to a 125d or whatever it could be better saving up to buy a 125d considering mod prices and impact on insurance, warranty etc.

But many guys on here have done loads of cool mods without issues so if want to do it, do it.
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by Spud1 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:22 pm

Simply put yes it will invalidate your engine warranty, yes it will hike your insurance premium (but maybe not as much as you think, depending on your age and insurer), and yes it will very much limit your resale options - not that it will necessarily affect the price (as some people want modified cars for some strange reason) but there are a lot of people out there who won't touch a modded car with a bargepole, even if they have been removed. I'd never buy a car that had ever been modified personally (even a relatively simply one like the mperformance exhaust).

Think about why you really want to do it - its likely to be cheaper to just buy a more powerful car, and not have to faff about with modifications that could cause you issues with the car. I've never really understood why people do it but everyone needs to have a hobby I guess!

It is true that the same engine is shared between *some* models of some model years - but there are often other parts of the car that have been prated to compensate for the extra power. Do some research on the specific model year that you buy first to make sure whatever you want to do is possible. There are plenty of people here or on bimmerpost/1addicts who can help if you really do want to go ahead. Also as GingerOtter says be very wary about false promises from tuning shops & part suppliers - many are out to make a fast buck or simply don't fully understand what they are doing for your specific model, and that can cause you a lot of problems or simply disappointment.

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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by agm2992mga » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:03 am

Hi and thanks to both for knowledgeable responses.

The "problematic" situation I'm in is that I have just landed myself with my new car (which is absolutely spot on appearance- and features-wise as I trawled long and hard to sift through and find it) with an undoubtedly great deal financially too; however, now that I have got used to it over the past 40 days or so, I feel I would like it to have a bit of extra grunt - perhaps what would have been on offer with model just above or so.

Given it is so early and that I am happy with the car itself, I feel reluctant to go back to the drawing board from scratch and try and sell and find another. Being a 17-plate, it also has plenty of warranty time left intact, which I would not care to totally invalidate.

Is the unfortunate reality that I can't really go about sensibly improving the power and performance without being at the detriment of something else now or later..? Or does someone have some wise suggestions as this can't be too uncommon a scenario that our new car feels slightly lacking once we get properly used to it and acclimatised?

Thanks a lot.
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by genkville » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:25 pm

check these guys out - https://www.avontuning.co.uk/

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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by GingerOtter » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:59 pm

Understand your point. To answer your question in a word no. Any mod is a gamble. Personally I wouldn’t touch any mod regarding engine. For me it’s a gamble too far. I switched out the suspension on my 140i but I know I can put the stock back on fairly easily so can live with the risk.

Many chaps do put a JB4 on (http://www.burgertuning.com) which is plug and play but not sure if there is an option for your car.

But again you should tell your insurance company and BMW if they find out will make life hard for you if there is a problem. You can take it off easily but as mentioned no one knows if BMW can trace it or not. There was a post on here where someone had coded out the stop start.l and BMW somehow remotely knew he had done it and refused to do some unconnected work. Then again 100s of people have no issues whatsoever with coding or JB4s.

There are many options open just depends if you are comfortable with tuning the engine.
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by Barney McGrew » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:23 pm

agm2992mga wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:03 am
Is the unfortunate reality that I can't really go about sensibly improving the power and performance without being at the detriment of something else now or later..? Or does someone have some wise suggestions as this can't be too uncommon a scenario that our new car feels slightly lacking once we get properly used to it and acclimatised?
Not being funny but you pretty much re-worded the initial question in the hope someone will give you the holy grail of performance tuning without any associated responsibility or repercussions.

Even putting stickers on your car is seen as a mod to a lot of insurers and needs to be stated, so any mod's from standard need to be declared. It's always tempting to think "oh well they'll never notice"/"wont happen to me", but as above, you risk being without insurance which has serious implications if found out and could even end up with court cases and being sued, even when things aren't directly your fault.

It's no big deal to mod/tune the car how you want, just follow the advice given and speak to your insurer first to get an idea of what's covered and then see about getting the job done. It may not be a big deal to them and not cost much more in you premium, but you wont know till you ask. You may need to change insurer though to one that's more mod friendly.

In terms of warranty, it's simply a case of your own personal risk. Many do it and get away with it, especially if future warranty cases are not engine related. But you just have to be aware that if BMW investigate and find out, you could be left with the bill to put right any issues. It's just how it is and part of the responsibility you have to take when modding within the warranty period.

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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by agm2992mga » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:32 pm

Thanks to all for tips.

I will make enquiries at some outfits and take what they offer with a pinch of salt and then weigh up whether I deem it worth it on balance (e.g. potential invalidations).

Just to clarify: it was never my intention to go about changing the car without telling the insurers, rather to get a heads up on here of what it may cost if I did decide to go down that route and revamp the engine, declaring this to insurers.
On this note, are there particular insurance firms that are more open and mod-friendly with which I should get in contact if my current one (Admiral) outright denies?

Barney McGrew wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:23 pm
Not being funny but ...
Barney, to be truthful, I'm not sure what you're getting at or alleging here.. I am just a bit inexperienced and trying to inform myself on the subject to know where I stand and what the options are.

Thanks to everyone again for input.
Have a good eve, ta!
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by Barney McGrew » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:29 pm

Just meant I wasn't trying to wind you up or be argumentative with my comment. It's easy for things to be misread on forums.

In terms of insurance, there's a good few that can be open to it, but depends on personal circumstances (age, location etc).

Weirdly Adrian Flux who previously was fine with my modded cars quoted me silly figures for the 140 completely stock and the AA gave a great price.

Greenlight insurance and Chris Knott do modded cars in my experience. I'm sure others can advise who've longer experience with the car though :)

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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by agm2992mga » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:10 pm

BHP: 150 - > 190 PS (+27%)
Torque: 320 - > 400 nm (+25%)

I have received this performance increase remap quotation for £295 inc. them throwing in an engine warranty because my car is 2017 and so new and not worn and torn.
This site is actually fairly local to me so am very happy all in all.

However, when I asked if my current insurer would cover, Admiral said no as it's third party and not manufacturer's own optional extra offered.
The remappers have advised that they and their other customers don't bother to tell their insurers at all as it's safe enough not to and wouldn't get found out..

Thoughts and advice please?
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by Thrash » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:23 pm

I wouldn't risk it at all without informing your insurer, that's just madness. I'm pretty sure everyone on here who uses JB4s or whatever other tuning box inform their insurers. On my previous car I asked my insurers about installing a tuning box and told them about the power increase and I think it increase the premium by about £200. In a minor incident then there probably isn't much risk but in a major incident then who knows. I personally would never risk it.

This thread is interesting with regards to mods on a PCP: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=193416
It was enough to put me off and not consider modding anything.
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by tweeky » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:54 pm

Turbo is different on the 120 and upwards.
Looks to me like you didn't do your research to good when looking for your car.
Think you need to look for another car but test drive a few before you decide.
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by Ezzra » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:21 pm

Just to clarify the legal situation of hiding material information, like a remap, from your insurer. If this information comes to light, say in the event of a claim, the legal remedy open to the insurer is to void the cover. In other words they can refund your premium and treat the policy as if it never came into existence.
Let's take a worse case scenario. You run down a child and cripple it. The police will persue you from a criminal perspective. The parents may persue you from a common law perspective and claim £500.000 damages.....

So it's potentially life changing. Frankly and tuning company advising it's customers not to tell their insurers are shysters.
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by agm2992mga » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:17 pm

Thank you to all for sensible input. I must admit that I too was naturally very concerned at the dismissive and seemingly flippant disregard for the necessary legal side of it all. Set some alarm bells ringing.

(Just to clarify: this concealment is by no means something I am familiar / comfortable with doing hence voicing directly here for opinions and experience. I wasn't condoning or prepared to go about doing this without insurance for risks previously addressed by yourselves)

As a tune up is not proving too feasible, what experience do people have with the f*** up of having got a new car that they are not overly happy with already in the first 6 weeks or so? For reference, it's on HP and I have paid roughly half off with a large initial deposit etc.

I'm afraid I feel indefinitely doomed to be unsatisfied for the foreseeable future but am trying to devise a salvage operation!
Do people know if this kind of thing is rectifiable and how?

I remain at the mercy of you guys' wisdom.. Thanks
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Re: Engine remapping - implications for insurance invalidation + eventual resale?

Post by tweeky » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:46 pm

Try selling it private or go talk to your sales person.............. Have you thought about having a chat with TRL http://babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=87981
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