Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by marco_polo » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:43 pm

:oops: Dual Mass Flywheel.
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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by DanH6 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:55 pm

Ah right, it doesn't feel as brutal as it used to with the original map, it feels like it just gives in quite weakly without resistance. I'll add that above now.

Out of interest, how will it be affected? And will the fact it doesn't stall as viciously as it used to, make a difference?

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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by marco_polo » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:07 pm

They can get sloppy then fail to opperate correctly. http://www.understeer.com/pdf/dualmass.pdf

I had a play with RJudgey's old DMF on Friday, was pretty knackered after 170k, very loose. Circa £700 plus fitting, and that didn't include a clutch.
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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by DanH6 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:42 pm

I see, nice little article. Am I right in saying laboring the engine would damage it aswell?

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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by marco_polo » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:47 pm

It's just a simple rotary vibration damper. Low RPM's will shake it to death, and stalling gives it a nasty shock load.

Too much heat (usually clutch slip) 'boils' the internal grease, fecking them up too.
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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by DanH6 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:05 pm

Ooh I see, that's my new thing learnt today, I'll take this stuff on board.

Cheers Marco! :)

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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by 118ddk » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:27 am

DanH6 wrote:Mine is done, and it's absolutely fantastic! Bear in mind I only have a 118D and the power difference from before and after is immense. It pulls in third and 4th like it used to in 2nd, over-taking is an absolute doddle on anything other than an autobahn. I have to restrain myself on town roads because it hits 40 so quickly in 2nd/3rd let alone 30! The power is as linear as always but it's obviously much stronger, it even gives out a deep grumble past 3,800rpm.

MPG has shot up, before I was covering about 46-48mpg on a 20 mile trip to work. Now I'm hitting about 55 and that's not light-footed either! I'll keep an eye on it as time goes by to see how it varies with whatever driving style i'm going for.

2 points to remember are the smell of diesel at idle, and also that the car is a little easier to stall. I just got off the phone with Stan and he confirmed that it's not a problem it's just an effect of the re-map. Because of the lack of back-pressure without a dpf the car doesn't have as much idle power as it used to so if revs are too low and you don't give it more throttle, the car will dip lower again and cut out. It doesn't feel as brutal as it used to with the original map, it feels like it just gives in quite weakly without resistance. Stan will be able to put it much better than I have I'm sure. It runs a little more like a petrol really. It's not an issue it's just driving style will need to be changed a little for town driving.

Apart from that I'm extremely pleased with it all. I had a bit of an issue because my ECU was encrypted so it had to be posted upto Glasgow for the re-map. Despite this I did get a pretty cool map as a result. It's a blend of the envirotune / original map, ecotune and maxitune upto 30%, 70% and 100% throttle respectively.

I can't praise it enough really and the communication has been absolutely brilliant, Stan has answered everything I've asked and always kept me informed of what needed to be done and how he would do it. I thoroughly recommend Ecotune to anyone thinking of getting a re-map, excellent quality product, excellent customer service and excellent results. I can confidently say the prices are justified because you get what you pay for, especially in a group buy like this and I will certainly be going back to them in future when I move onto something else. Best mod I've done to the car so far I have no regrets doing this.
Regarding the stall.... Sorry, but removing the DPF has no effect on this. Actually, removing the DPF making better flow (it's all about flow, and not resistance) would make the engine HARDER to stall...
It more sounds like Stan has alterd the "low" values, hence the eviron tune making the car less powerfull at that specific throttle position/load.

Apart from that, sounds nice.
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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by Stotty » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:44 am

118ddk wrote:
DanH6 wrote:Mine is done, and it's absolutely fantastic! Bear in mind I only have a 118D and the power difference from before and after is immense. It pulls in third and 4th like it used to in 2nd, over-taking is an absolute doddle on anything other than an autobahn. I have to restrain myself on town roads because it hits 40 so quickly in 2nd/3rd let alone 30! The power is as linear as always but it's obviously much stronger, it even gives out a deep grumble past 3,800rpm.

MPG has shot up, before I was covering about 46-48mpg on a 20 mile trip to work. Now I'm hitting about 55 and that's not light-footed either! I'll keep an eye on it as time goes by to see how it varies with whatever driving style i'm going for.

2 points to remember are the smell of diesel at idle, and also that the car is a little easier to stall. I just got off the phone with Stan and he confirmed that it's not a problem it's just an effect of the re-map. Because of the lack of back-pressure without a dpf the car doesn't have as much idle power as it used to so if revs are too low and you don't give it more throttle, the car will dip lower again and cut out. It doesn't feel as brutal as it used to with the original map, it feels like it just gives in quite weakly without resistance. Stan will be able to put it much better than I have I'm sure. It runs a little more like a petrol really. It's not an issue it's just driving style will need to be changed a little for town driving.

Apart from that I'm extremely pleased with it all. I had a bit of an issue because my ECU was encrypted so it had to be posted upto Glasgow for the re-map. Despite this I did get a pretty cool map as a result. It's a blend of the envirotune / original map, ecotune and maxitune upto 30%, 70% and 100% throttle respectively.

I can't praise it enough really and the communication has been absolutely brilliant, Stan has answered everything I've asked and always kept me informed of what needed to be done and how he would do it. I thoroughly recommend Ecotune to anyone thinking of getting a re-map, excellent quality product, excellent customer service and excellent results. I can confidently say the prices are justified because you get what you pay for, especially in a group buy like this and I will certainly be going back to them in future when I move onto something else. Best mod I've done to the car so far I have no regrets doing this.
Regarding the stall.... Sorry, but removing the DPF has no effect on this. Actually, removing the DPF making better flow (it's all about flow, and not resistance) would make the engine HARDER to stall...
It more sounds like Stan has alterd the "low" values, hence the eviron tune making the car less powerfull at that specific throttle position/load.

Apart from that, sounds nice.
Wrong surely. Resistance creates torque.

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Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by 118ddk » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:58 am

No resistance does NOT create torque.

It's ALL about flow.



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Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by nabz-2p » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:28 pm

118ddk wrote:No resistance does NOT create torque.

It's ALL about flow.



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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by Stotty » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:48 pm

118ddk wrote:No resistance does NOT create torque.

It's ALL about flow.



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I chose my words poorly. Resistance doesn't create torque, but it is required for torque to exsist.

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Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by 118ddk » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:00 pm

The less resistance(optimum flow) the more power (torque) you can get.
An engine does not need manifold/exhaust resistance to make optimum power, it needes good flowing components at correct size and length to keep gases flowing at correct speed (important in NA engines)

I bet Stan can confirm that the stall issue is because of parameteres in the map, and not because of the removed DPF



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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by marco_polo » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:27 pm

I agree with 118ddk. Turbo-back pressure is basically undesirable, as it reduces spool-up and therefore reduces torque.
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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by Stotty » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:32 pm

When in gear yes, as the resistance is the car. When out of gear/the clutch no being engaged (as it isn't when your setting off) there is very little resistance and almost no torque being created.

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Re: Ecotune Group Buy - 20% + Discount for BabyBMW Members

Post by Stotty » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:39 pm

The point I'm trying to get across, get an old Pug 1.5d on tickover, engage first gear and sidestep the clutch. The car will lurch forwards and pull without stalling. Now replace the exhaust with one that has a 4" bore and try the same again, it will be a lot more likely to stall. There is less resistance as the exhaust is a lot larger, but less torque generated from the engine on tickover as it has less resistance.

Similarly look at a n/a cars torque curve before and after an uprated exhaust. You'll generally find the car produces less torque at low rev (below 3k for example) and produces more torque after 3k rpm as the exhaust is less restricted. Notice, even with less restriction the low rev torque will decline.

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