M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by RickN55 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:03 pm
To he fair if his account is correct the two of them deserved to be grassed in. That isn't just having a bit of fun if you're intimidating and bullying other road users.

I don't think the police get too bothered with petty incidents caught on camera.

There is that many dashcams that there is a good chance you'll get caught out at some point.
+1 Shouldn't be doing on busy roads with other road users specially antagonising them in such a manner!
Fairplay empty straight dual carriageway middle of the night early hours of the morning no other road users or filth about then that's fair game imo

But in these circumstances they asked for all they got imo
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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Sam_M » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:30 pm

Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:03 pm

I don't think the police get too bothered with petty incidents caught on camera.

You'd be surprised, a number of forces are soliciting dash cam footage

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=polic ... it+dashcam+

https://www.cheshire.police.uk/advice-a ... m-footage/
http://www.gmp.police.uk/live/Nhoodv3.n ... 02003B6005

Worth noting these lines from GMP

We will need the whole, unedited, footage of your journey, not just the incident.

Be aware that the driving or riding of all parties will be reviewed. Stay calm do not interact with the road user as your camera will be recording and your actions will be captured as well. Loud music, telephone conversations, using abusive language or showing aggression could affect liability, prosecution and court decisions.



You need to be whiter than white if you're going to submit...

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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm

OneTwenty wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:26 pm
In this case it was probably good, dealer staff shouldn't be racing cars that don't belong to them.

But overall, this dash cam culture worries me for a number of reasons. Lets say someone decided they wanted me to lose my license, all they need to do is buy some old shitbox, fill it with a load of knuckleheads and then follow me down a dark country lane in a threatening manner whilst filming. I would be slightly worried having some idiots trying to follow me and would assume they wanted the car so would certainly put my foot down to get away from them. I've been followed like this before in previous desirable/fast cars and it's very unnerving!!

They then film this and report me to the Police, I get a visit and lose my license because they have "evidence". It's not context based and IMO the "evidence" shouldn't be allowed to be used by the Police as IMO they should have to actually witness the event in question in person.

I'm sure armed with a dash cam I could easily set something up to put someone driving in a bad light. It only needs someone with a grudge/jealous streak to do such a thing.
In the scenario above, if the only thing you are doing which is illegal is speeding, then I don't believe you would be in trouble as dashcams are not calibrated speed guns. And if the car behind was driving in a threatening manner, I suspect the dashcam footage would illustrate that so sharing it with the police would be rather counter productive for said knuckleheads?
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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by OneTwenty » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:07 pm

Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm
OneTwenty wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:26 pm
In this case it was probably good, dealer staff shouldn't be racing cars that don't belong to them.

But overall, this dash cam culture worries me for a number of reasons. Lets say someone decided they wanted me to lose my license, all they need to do is buy some old shitbox, fill it with a load of knuckleheads and then follow me down a dark country lane in a threatening manner whilst filming. I would be slightly worried having some idiots trying to follow me and would assume they wanted the car so would certainly put my foot down to get away from them. I've been followed like this before in previous desirable/fast cars and it's very unnerving!!

They then film this and report me to the Police, I get a visit and lose my license because they have "evidence". It's not context based and IMO the "evidence" shouldn't be allowed to be used by the Police as IMO they should have to actually witness the event in question in person.

I'm sure armed with a dash cam I could easily set something up to put someone driving in a bad light. It only needs someone with a grudge/jealous streak to do such a thing.
In the scenario above, if the only thing you are doing which is illegal is speeding, then I don't believe you would be in trouble as dashcams are not calibrated speed guns. And if the car behind was driving in a threatening manner, I suspect the dashcam footage would illustrate that so sharing it with the police would be rather counter productive for said knuckleheads?
You would hope so, but you never know these days!

I don't have a dash cam as yet, as it would bother me if I drove like a bit of a dick somewhere and then reviewed my own footage!! :lol:

And by driving like a dick I mean going a bit over the limit, or going a bit too quick, not anything dangerous to others.
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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Quattrodave » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:25 pm

KR15 wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:57 pm
Quattrodave wrote:
KR15 wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:28 pm

So you advocate people dicking around on public roads in lethal weapons?

Are you 12?
Geez, overreaction of the day to what I saw as a tongue in cheek remark.
Ha, maybe. I'm just fed up with the amount of arseholes on the roads these days (maybe it's been always?).

Anyway, if it was a tongue in cheek remark then fair enough.

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Whoa, hold off on the retraction - I never said I was right, just how I saw the remark ;) :D

But I have to agree with your follow up sentiments - the roads seem to have many more inconsiderate/rude/reckless drivers these days. I suspect it's potentially even worse down on the southcoast. Least whenever I travel up Stoke on Trent way I see far better road manners on M40/M5/M6 than I do on M27/M3 and roads are 'faster' up that way - not north but north of me!

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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Kerr » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 pm

Sam_M wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:30 pm
Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:03 pm

I don't think the police get too bothered with petty incidents caught on camera.

You'd be surprised, a number of forces are soliciting dash cam footage

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=polic ... it+dashcam+

https://www.cheshire.police.uk/advice-a ... m-footage/
http://www.gmp.police.uk/live/Nhoodv3.n ... 02003B6005

Worth noting these lines from GMP

We will need the whole, unedited, footage of your journey, not just the incident.

Be aware that the driving or riding of all parties will be reviewed. Stay calm do not interact with the road user as your camera will be recording and your actions will be captured as well. Loud music, telephone conversations, using abusive language or showing aggression could affect liability, prosecution and court decisions.



You need to be whiter than white if you're going to submit...
There was a guy who was convicted of speeding the other week after he submitted a complaint against another driver. :lol:

The videos that are getting submitted to the police is the same rubbish nothing incidents that people keep posting on YouTube. Minor horn honking videos aren't serious incidents.

The unedited videos is a good bit. Most drivers will be too scared to send videos in. I've lost count of the videos that outraged people have posted and their own errors, offences and contribution to the incident are glaringly obvious.

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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:37 pm

Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 pm
There was a guy who was convicted of speeding the other week after he submitted a complaint against another driver. :lol:
Can you be done for speeding without evidence from a calibrated, type approved speed camera or radar gun? I wouldn't have thought that an uncalibrated dashcam operated by an untrained member of the public would be acceptable as evidence of speeding.
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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Sam_M » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:44 pm

Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 pm

There was a guy who was convicted of speeding the other week after he submitted a complaint against another driver. :lol:
Ha classic :lol:

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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Quattrodave » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:37 pm
Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 pm
There was a guy who was convicted of speeding the other week after he submitted a complaint against another driver. :lol:
Can you be done for speeding without evidence from a calibrated, type approved speed camera or radar gun? I wouldn't have thought that an uncalibrated dashcam operated by an untrained member of the public would be acceptable as evidence of speeding.
Well I suppose that depends, if there's two easily identifiable and measurable points that can be seen on the footage and the distance between them measured (say road bridges) then it's possible. Take a silly example lets say there's two bridges exactly one mile apart on a 60mph road and the footage shows it took you 30 seconds to cover that distance, that would indicate an average speed over 30 seconds of 120mph so even if you could argue a second or two at each identifiable point then you're still well over the limit so then it's not a case of if you'd get convicted it's how harsh the penalty would be.

In that example I would expect a slightly more lenient penalty as there's arguable error in the calculation of speed but not enough error to quash a conviction.

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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Kerr » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:53 pm

Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:37 pm
Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 pm
There was a guy who was convicted of speeding the other week after he submitted a complaint against another driver. :lol:
Can you be done for speeding without evidence from a calibrated, type approved speed camera or radar gun? I wouldn't have thought that an uncalibrated dashcam operated by an untrained member of the public would be acceptable as evidence of speeding.
Fair point. Maybe it was dangerous driving he got done for. There will come a point when it's obviously dangerous even if they can say exactly what speed he was doing. I believe they can use video footage for calculating accurately.

I can't find the story, but here is another one.

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/loca ... o/?ref=rss

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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:58 pm

Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:53 pm
Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:37 pm
Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 pm
There was a guy who was convicted of speeding the other week after he submitted a complaint against another driver. :lol:
Can you be done for speeding without evidence from a calibrated, type approved speed camera or radar gun? I wouldn't have thought that an uncalibrated dashcam operated by an untrained member of the public would be acceptable as evidence of speeding.
Fair point. Maybe it was dangerous driving he got done for. There will come a point when it's obviously dangerous even if they can say exactly what speed he was doing. I believe they can use video footage for calculating accurately.

I can't find the story, but here is another one.

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/loca ... o/?ref=rss
Aye, they always have the option of going for a less specific offence if the driving is obviously careless or dangerous.
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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:00 pm

Quattrodave wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm
Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:37 pm
Kerr wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:30 pm
There was a guy who was convicted of speeding the other week after he submitted a complaint against another driver. :lol:
Can you be done for speeding without evidence from a calibrated, type approved speed camera or radar gun? I wouldn't have thought that an uncalibrated dashcam operated by an untrained member of the public would be acceptable as evidence of speeding.
Well I suppose that depends, if there's two easily identifiable and measurable points that can be seen on the footage and the distance between them measured (say road bridges) then it's possible. Take a silly example lets say there's two bridges exactly one mile apart on a 60mph road and the footage shows it took you 30 seconds to cover that distance, that would indicate an average speed over 30 seconds of 120mph so even if you could argue a second or two at each identifiable point then you're still well over the limit so then it's not a case of if you'd get convicted it's how harsh the penalty would be.

In that example I would expect a slightly more lenient penalty as there's arguable error in the calculation of speed but not enough error to quash a conviction.
I'm still not convinced Dave. A dashcam isn't a calibrated clock either and it's fairly easy to speed up or slow down a digital recording. I think a good lawyer would get you off on that one.
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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by ItsMeKyle » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:03 pm

I find it unlikely that dashcam footage from the public could be used in a prosecution. More likely that it would be used to pressure/trick someone into admitting guilt.
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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Uncle Tupelo » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:22 pm

ItsMeKyle wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:03 pm
I find it unlikely that dashcam footage from the public could be used in a prosecution. More likely that it would be used to pressure/trick someone into admitting guilt.
I suspect you may be right. I was going to suggest that if the offence was obvious and incontrovertible (as with a recent road rage assault case locally which was caught on dashcam), but as I typed I realised that the dashcam footage probably just corroborated the driver's testimony of what his dashcam caught. On the other hand, it can prove that a driver was innocent, as with a recent lorry driver who was accused of rear-ending a car on a motorway, until his dashcam footage showed that the car appeared from a slip road too late for the trucker to avoid it.
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Re: M240i vs TTRS - Go to jail, go directly to jail....

Post by Quattrodave » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:40 pm

Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:00 pm
Quattrodave wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm
Uncle Tupelo wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:37 pm


Can you be done for speeding without evidence from a calibrated, type approved speed camera or radar gun? I wouldn't have thought that an uncalibrated dashcam operated by an untrained member of the public would be acceptable as evidence of speeding.
Well I suppose that depends, if there's two easily identifiable and measurable points that can be seen on the footage and the distance between them measured (say road bridges) then it's possible. Take a silly example lets say there's two bridges exactly one mile apart on a 60mph road and the footage shows it took you 30 seconds to cover that distance, that would indicate an average speed over 30 seconds of 120mph so even if you could argue a second or two at each identifiable point then you're still well over the limit so then it's not a case of if you'd get convicted it's how harsh the penalty would be.

In that example I would expect a slightly more lenient penalty as there's arguable error in the calculation of speed but not enough error to quash a conviction.
I'm still not convinced Dave. A dashcam isn't a calibrated clock either and it's fairly easy to speed up or slow down a digital recording. I think a good lawyer would get you off on that one.
S'ok I'm not here to convince anyone but there are definitely occasions when focal points and evidence would be enough to convict. Ever seen those white paint spots in the middle of some roads? They're 1 mile markers used for police helicopters to gauge a vehicles speed on the ground. If your passing one of those every 25 seconds (140mph) in a 60mph zone you'd need an eyewateringly expensive solicitor to talk your way out of a conviction based on the "yeah but it's not calibrated" argument - the footage would have to be out in excess over 100% and proven to be so. At those sort of speeds the police would take time to carefully measure the distance between points and re-inact using the same equipment to justify.

Yes footage can be sped up but again anything more than say a 20% increase in frame rate will be noticeable.

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