My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

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clarkeysntfc
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by clarkeysntfc » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:25 am

Once we have had the next financial crisis I'm pretty sure that the current ease of access in to PCP's will be a thing of a past.
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by Peter9588 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:41 am

Jarre wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:26 pm
I think the best thing to do at the minute if possible is keep it. Because you’re 9 months in and all the negative equity you’re essentially going to have to pay £XXXX to get rid of the car right now. That money may as well continue to be spent on the monthly payments and you keep the car until it’s more financially viable to sell it.

Unfortunately with PCP it is a commitment as you either make the payments and keep it a while or keep it a short time then pay the negative equity off to get rid. Some people who buy cash don’t seem to realise that if they were in your situation but with a cash purchased car they still lose thousands through depreciation. It doesn’t really make much difference...


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The obvious difference here is that if the cash buyer sells the car and takes a big hit, yes they’ve lost money but they had that money in the first place.

In comparison the PCP buyer has the same large hit in the form of negative equity, but they never had the cash in the first place. So now they have to find the money to plug the gap, as opposed to just losing it.
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by Compactpete » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:06 am

wenklaw wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:02 am
Barney McGrew wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:42 am
Compactpete wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:58 am
I see no elitist, cash buyer posts on this thread? I for one couldn’t afford a new car without some form of funding.

In fact I would argue that regardless of bank balance, paying cash for a massively depreciating asset is not the best way.

I have full sympathy for the OP and his position. I just think this thread needed to be a warning to others that just because a £30k car can be had for £350 a month on a PCP. If things go wrong for you it can be a huge financial headache, and a PCP will most likely put you in the worst position out of all buying options.
I think another problem with forums is context can be lost, someone can say something that when spoken comes across well, but when read, their intent is lost and can come across badly. Having read this it just seems some people are warning the potential pitfalls of PCP but it's come across to others as a knock at those who use it. I don't think that's the case though.

I would have loved something like PCP when I was back in my 20's. I drove bangers for years until I could start to afford 'decent' cars, and when I got closer to being an old fart, it amazed me how guys in their late teens/early 20's could afford cars like these and then saw how the PCP deals work. I think it's great as I'm slightly envious this wasn't around when I was that age and simply had to dribble at people in 'expensive' cars.
Agreed mate. And also agree PCP's are if understood by the person taking them out a way to get in something that wouldn't be affordable.

All I would like to see is a little more commitment required when buying a car that costs £30k as for me £0-£500 just isn't a sign of that. If you can afford £400 a month for 4 years you should be able to come up with a couple of grand IMO, if you cant it just proves that the person has no contingency fund if things take a turn for the worse even in the short term. That to me is a sign of irresponsible lending.
Yep agreed. People need to remember they are taking on £30k plus of commitment, not just £350 a month.
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by jimBabyBMW » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:21 am

Barney McGrew wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:42 am
Compactpete wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:58 am
I see no elitist, cash buyer posts on this thread? I for one couldn’t afford a new car without some form of funding.

In fact I would argue that regardless of bank balance, paying cash for a massively depreciating asset is not the best way.

I have full sympathy for the OP and his position. I just think this thread needed to be a warning to others that just because a £30k car can be had for £350 a month on a PCP. If things go wrong for you it can be a huge financial headache, and a PCP will most likely put you in the worst position out of all buying options.
I think another problem with forums is context can be lost, someone can say something that when spoken comes across well, but when read, their intent is lost and can come across badly. Having read this it just seems some people are warning the potential pitfalls of PCP but it's come across to others as a knock at those who use it. I don't think that's the case though.

I would have loved something like PCP when I was back in my 20's. I drove bangers for years until I could start to afford 'decent' cars, and when I got closer to being an old fart, it amazed me how guys in their late teens/early 20's could afford cars like these and then saw how the PCP deals work. I think it's great as I'm slightly envious this wasn't around when I was that age and simply had to dribble at people in 'expensive' cars.
I was spending my money on going out at that age, wouldn't change it for anything. I certainly wouldn't have been able to afford both and going out like I did then isn't something I could, or would want to do now. But I can comfortably afford and enjoy my cars more today, which I would have struggled to do then. No regrets here.

Besides, having an old banger is a right of passage for youngsters and looking back at the cars I owned, I thoroughly enjoyed them.

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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by jimBabyBMW » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:31 am

Peter9588 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:41 am
Jarre wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:26 pm
I think the best thing to do at the minute if possible is keep it. Because you’re 9 months in and all the negative equity you’re essentially going to have to pay £XXXX to get rid of the car right now. That money may as well continue to be spent on the monthly payments and you keep the car until it’s more financially viable to sell it.

Unfortunately with PCP it is a commitment as you either make the payments and keep it a while or keep it a short time then pay the negative equity off to get rid. Some people who buy cash don’t seem to realise that if they were in your situation but with a cash purchased car they still lose thousands through depreciation. It doesn’t really make much difference...


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The obvious difference here is that if the cash buyer sells the car and takes a big hit, yes they’ve lost money but they had that money in the first place.

In comparison the PCP buyer has the same large hit in the form of negative equity, but they never had the cash in the first place. So now they have to find the money to plug the gap, as opposed to just losing it.
Probably the best summary.

The issue for me is that 2nd party, i.e BMW FS. They still want their money/profit, so the depreciation isn't the fair market value, it's depreciation plus their drink on top and that's what hurts, so it can never really be the same.

As for investing the money you could have otherwise spent. It's great when you've got a crystal ball and can say, you'd have made X if you'd invested it in y. Crashes of 08 happen and we don't seem to be too far from the precipice to give any confidence in making those decisions, we aren't all stock brokers either.

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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by Barney McGrew » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:44 am

jimBabyBMW wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:21 am
I was spending my money on going out at that age, wouldn't change it for anything. I certainly wouldn't have been able to afford both and going out like I did then isn't something I could, or would want to do now. But I can comfortably afford and enjoy my cars more today, which I would have struggled to do then. No regrets here.

Besides, having an old banger is a right of passage for youngsters and looking back at the cars I owned, I thoroughly enjoyed them.
That's a good point. I must admit I didn't have much spare cash back then anyway, but times have changed and people are (generally) more affluent.

Agree about a right of passage back then. At one point I had 2 Metro's (both cost me peanuts due to their state) and one was slowly disintegrating as it was a donor car to keep the other one running. We were regularly having to push friends cars to the breakers :)

Anyway, getting off topic with nostalgia ;)

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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by swanny71 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:21 pm

OP - Can’t help with any advice on the PCP predicament but sincerely hope things sort themselves out OK.

Life kicking you in the balls like this is why I’ve always adopted a pessimistic ‘what if’ mindset and been wary of PCP’ing a car.
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by HN1989x » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:30 pm

swanny71 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:21 pm
OP - Can’t help with any advice on the PCP predicament but sincerely hope things sort themselves out OK.

Life kicking you in the balls like this is why I’ve always adopted a pessimistic ‘what if’ mindset and been wary of PCP’ing a car.
I don't know what everyone else's experience has been like when buying a new car but when I went to the dealership to discuss discounts/buying my car, I found them alarmingly pushy. They seemed desperate for me to purchase my car via PCP for some odd reason. After telling them many times that I wasn't interested in PCP, the sales manager came out and had a go in persuading me to go down the PCP route! I wonder what's in it for them :shock:

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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by AdamC » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:33 pm

HN1989x wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:30 pm
swanny71 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:21 pm
OP - Can’t help with any advice on the PCP predicament but sincerely hope things sort themselves out OK.

Life kicking you in the balls like this is why I’ve always adopted a pessimistic ‘what if’ mindset and been wary of PCP’ing a car.
I don't know what everyone else's experience has been like when buying a new car but when I went to the dealership to discuss discounts/buying my car, I found them alarmingly pushy. They seemed desperate for me to purchase my car via PCP for some odd reason. After telling them many times that I wasn't interested in PCP, the sales manager came out and had a go in persuading me to go down the PCP route! I wonder what's in it for them :shock:
In simple terms it's money. Dealerships make money from selling the car plus extra for selling a finance package.
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by sgb27 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:54 pm

RJW_1989 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:00 am
as for the cash buyer thing .... i was always told that if something depreciates , rent it.... if it appreciates , buy it .... to me if you have 30 odd grand burning a hole in your pocket then you can surely afford between 3 and 4 hundred quid a month for a pcp and put the capital you would have lost on buying the car cash into something like another property deposit or something
It comes down to how much risk you are willing to take with your cash. If you're very risk-averse it's better to pay the cash for the car (well PCP it then pay it off in 14 days) and know you're 100% sure to save on the interest payments you would have had to pay to BMW FS. If you don't pay it off and invest in something else there's always the risk your investment doesn't go up enough in value to cover the additional interest you are paying to BMW.
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by RJW_1989 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:19 pm

sgb27 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:54 pm
RJW_1989 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:00 am
as for the cash buyer thing .... i was always told that if something depreciates , rent it.... if it appreciates , buy it .... to me if you have 30 odd grand burning a hole in your pocket then you can surely afford between 3 and 4 hundred quid a month for a pcp and put the capital you would have lost on buying the car cash into something like another property deposit or something
It comes down to how much risk you are willing to take with your cash. If you're very risk-averse it's better to pay the cash for the car (well PCP it then pay it off in 14 days) and know you're 100% sure to save on the interest payments you would have had to pay to BMW FS. If you don't pay it off and invest in something else there's always the risk your investment doesn't go up enough in value to cover the additional interest you are paying to BMW.
i hear ya , its horses for courses but all im saying is if i had the capital to buy a car out right from new id be exploring a lot of other options before i did because it will almost certainly lose money , kind of off topic now isnt it ha, O.P hope everything works out for you mate , as luck would have it i logged into my BMW FS login page and there is a link on there about managing your deal if your circumstances change .... maybe have a rummage round there see if they can do anything for you, as i said earlier i got stung on this , if i could have just grinned and bared the expense of the cupra for a year i would have been ok , but instead i rolled aload of neg into another deal and it took me about 4 years of paying over the odds for the golf

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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by Tiggstar1 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:44 pm

OP I think you should try your best to sell it privately, you might get more that way, then it will be up to you to clear the NE.

I was in a similar position with my last car, it was costing too much, i could have kept it but I had enough of putting £500+ diesel in per month. Just do what you feel is best for your situation.

It’s a tricky one because either way you will loose ££££.
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by clarkeysntfc » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:01 pm

HN1989x wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:30 pm
swanny71 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:21 pm
OP - Can’t help with any advice on the PCP predicament but sincerely hope things sort themselves out OK.

Life kicking you in the balls like this is why I’ve always adopted a pessimistic ‘what if’ mindset and been wary of PCP’ing a car.
I don't know what everyone else's experience has been like when buying a new car but when I went to the dealership to discuss discounts/buying my car, I found them alarmingly pushy. They seemed desperate for me to purchase my car via PCP for some odd reason. After telling them many times that I wasn't interested in PCP, the sales manager came out and had a go in persuading me to go down the PCP route! I wonder what's in it for them :shock:
99% of the time they offer bigger discounts if you take some form of finance out when you purchase the vehicle.

So what I did was take delivery on a PCP and then withdraw from the agreement (you pay the balance with cash + bank loan) within 14 days for a nominal interest charge (£4 I think).
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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by Jarre » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:00 pm

Peter9588 wrote:
Jarre wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:26 pm
I think the best thing to do at the minute if possible is keep it. Because you’re 9 months in and all the negative equity you’re essentially going to have to pay £XXXX to get rid of the car right now. That money may as well continue to be spent on the monthly payments and you keep the car until it’s more financially viable to sell it.

Unfortunately with PCP it is a commitment as you either make the payments and keep it a while or keep it a short time then pay the negative equity off to get rid. Some people who buy cash don’t seem to realise that if they were in your situation but with a cash purchased car they still lose thousands through depreciation. It doesn’t really make much difference...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The obvious difference here is that if the cash buyer sells the car and takes a big hit, yes they’ve lost money but they had that money in the first place.

In comparison the PCP buyer has the same large hit in the form of negative equity, but they never had the cash in the first place. So now they have to find the money to plug the gap, as opposed to just losing it.
But some people do have the cash, but choose to finance it because keeping the cash in their account allows for investment in other things. There won’t be many millionaires buy extravagant cars in cash.

Anyway, my point being is that the depreciation of a brand new car after 9 months (also consider you often don’t get as good a offer on the ‘cash’ price of the vehicle for buying cash) is probably not too different from the monthly payments plus negative equity.

If you’re wanting a used car then yes it’s better to get a bank loan/pay cash, but if you’re buying new you can often be better off financing. But each to their own and whatever they feel a better fit.

If I had £30k in my bank account I think I’d be buying another house to rent out with a good yield, not putting £30k into a car.


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Re: My 9 month old M140 might have to go.

Post by jimBabyBMW » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:14 pm

Jarre wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:00 pm
Peter9588 wrote:
Jarre wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:26 pm
I think the best thing to do at the minute if possible is keep it. Because you’re 9 months in and all the negative equity you’re essentially going to have to pay £XXXX to get rid of the car right now. That money may as well continue to be spent on the monthly payments and you keep the car until it’s more financially viable to sell it.

Unfortunately with PCP it is a commitment as you either make the payments and keep it a while or keep it a short time then pay the negative equity off to get rid. Some people who buy cash don’t seem to realise that if they were in your situation but with a cash purchased car they still lose thousands through depreciation. It doesn’t really make much difference...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The obvious difference here is that if the cash buyer sells the car and takes a big hit, yes they’ve lost money but they had that money in the first place.

In comparison the PCP buyer has the same large hit in the form of negative equity, but they never had the cash in the first place. So now they have to find the money to plug the gap, as opposed to just losing it.
But some people do have the cash, but choose to finance it because keeping the cash in their account allows for investment in other things. There won’t be many millionaires buy extravagant cars in cash.

Anyway, my point being is that the depreciation of a brand new car after 9 months (also consider you often don’t get as good a offer on the ‘cash’ price of the vehicle for buying cash) is probably not too different from the monthly payments plus negative equity.

If you’re wanting a used car then yes it’s better to get a bank loan/pay cash, but if you’re buying new you can often be better off financing. But each to their own and whatever they feel a better fit.

If I had £30k in my bank account I think I’d be buying another house to rent out with a good yield, not putting £30k into a car.


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A house for 30k! Lol

The yields are terrible these days, if you want to buy a house to rent with a loan you'll be screwed with tax laws and higher mortgage rates that can't be offset anymore, not to mention the stamp duty. BTL is dead. I'd make more paying off my mortgage but why bother at 1.7%!!! Could even commercialise it, then you can offset your loan payments against tax, but the mortgage rates are crippling.

Buy a car with your cash, save on the payments, get a used low mileage example to offset depreciation, at least your in with a chance.

So much twaddle, it's so easy to make money with money (in theory), but buying houses is not the way.

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