Baby BMW Forum banner

My Suspension quest! 130i

151K views 1K replies 91 participants last post by  THETYRANT 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Ok as many of you might of seen over the last few months ive been on a mission to find a suspension setup suited to my needs on this my 2nd E87 130i, basically im after a compliant road setup that doesn't spoil the sporty feel of the car and also wont object too much to going on track, although that has become less important as time has gone on, so thought i would start a new thread to diary it all for my reference and it might also help others wondering what direction to go in, its a LONG story so if you don't like reading probably best to hit the back button now :)

On my first 130 i never touched the suspension and it was always on the list of things to try and improve (as well as an LSD!) so on this my 2nd 130 i decided to address these issued starting with suspension and following with a quaife LSD (which is now also fitted), first up was to replace the Msport dampers as nsf was blown and nearly out of oil which gave me the excuse i need and so the quest began!

Below is the list of suspension ive had fitted since i bought the car in June 2015, i will go into more detail but i like a good list to start :)

1st - 60k mile Original Msport dampers and springs (NSF damper leaking)
2nd - New Koni Sport Adjustable dampers with Msport springs
3rd - Used Koni FSD dampers with Msport springs
4th - KW Street Comfort Coilover kit
5th - BIrds B1 Bilstein Dampers and Springs
6th - Bilstein B4S oem spec dampers, initally with Eibach Pro springs but read on :)

7th - And to update this first post, back to another set of Koni Sport adjustables with BMWP front bumpstop and Koni rear, tried several springs from eibach prokit to various Msport versions, currently on Fl-130 or 135i front with pre-fl 130i rears.

Koni Sport/Msport Spring - we all know what Msport dampers/springs are like so no need to report on those, the Koni Sports are probably the favourite dampers that ive had (so far) for various reasons, on the soft setting they are nice and compliant with good damping control giving a nice improvement all round in comfort and handling over totally stock setup, also you can adjust/stiffen the damping up to suit your needs if you can live with a firmer ride on road, i did play around with them for a few weeks on various settings and while on soft setting or even 1/2 turn harder they were very good for road and even on track (although little stiffer there was better still) but i always felt that while front end was good the rear needed quite a firm damper setting to fully control the bouncy rear end that plagues the 1series (more on this later), while on this higher damper setting i found ride a little too firm for poor roads and pottering about usage i mostly do, so when i spotted so low mileage Koni FSD on german ebay i bought them to try and see if they were more suitable.

Koni FSD/Msport springs - these are meant to be a great allrounder with automatically adjustable damping rates depending how you drive, some report that this can give a slightly inconsistent feel to the car as it varies between settings and i would say i did feel this to a degree but not noticeably an issue apart from on bumpy tracks, if anything i would say they felt slightly firmer initially than the Koni Sport on soft setting but when you hit a big bump they did as designed and open up internal valves to absorb them , worked pretty well but after awhile i realised i wanted more control and i still felt the rear was a little bouncy, although it was improvement over stock it wasn't as good as i wanted......

KW Street Comfort Coilovers - i found these after much researching about people looking for a comfy/compliant coilover kit, there is not much info on these on 1series forums and not much at all in the UK!, i found quite a lot of discussion on the E9x forums mainly from usa about them and nearly all positive saying it does what it says on the tin so thought i would give them a try, i was wary as they run very high springs rates at around double the Msport setup which was a concern for comfort, however egg'd on by positive reviews i got an order in with one of my customers/suppliers at work so KW made some and shipped them over.
This was first time i had run a coilover setup on a 1series without the stock Msport springs with conventional dampers and bumpstops etc, first impression were good and with some tweaking to damping got a reasonably good compromise, the high springs rates however always felt just a bit to firm for my awful roads around here and also as sprint series ive been competing in was coming to an end i thought i should maybe look towards more comfort for road use, so with the KW up for sale we moved on.....

Birds B1 Dampers and Springs - OK everyone on here raves about this setup for road car usage so i just had to try it next, it was a close thing between going for these or the Ohlins R&T kit but i reasoned that the B1 is meant to be the ultimate road setup which is what i was aiming for really, track use is few and far between especially as winter approaches so Birds B1 it was.
Initally after fitting i was very impressed with this setup, a fast blast along some fairly bumpy A and B roads and it just soaked it all up, non of the rear bouncy issues a just very controlled and balanced feel, it did feel a little soft on rear especially after firm spring of the KW setup but i soon got used to that, day after fitting it was a 450mile roundtrip to Rockingham for the sprint seried final and i was worried it would feel a bit soft on track but it was very good and very controlled which was a bonus. Subsequent 600 or so road miles i started to feel the low speed comfort which is a lot of my usage just wasnt there, front end just feels a bit choppy at sub 50mph when pottering around bumpy back roads with family on board, its not harsh just annoyed me enough to start pondering other options and as i rarely get chance to go and have fun on my own in car i started to rethink the whole thing!, as you have probably guessed by now once i start thinking about changing it doesnt take long before another plan has formed....

Moving on......



Random pic added by moderator so this post can appear in Featured Threads!
 
See less See more
1
#627 ·
THETYRANT said:
Thanks glad your enjoying your setup :)
How r u getting on with the Quaife? I have always toyed with the idea of getting a Quaife but 300lb-ft and 255s on the rear even with greasy roads I'm not getting the traction issues just grip just puts the power down. When the tread wears out, I'm going to try 235s. I want to get a Quaife at that point but I'm also looking to get an Evora or E89 Z4s as weekend toy to pair up with the 120d...Suprisingly the Lotus is winning on practicality and comfort[emoji33]Quieter cabin and more comfortable ride than the 987 Cayman S plus 2 small seats in the back for the kids. Then chuck in the fact that it's a better drivers car the Cayman had no advantages. Coupled with Jap reliability on the engine, gearbox etc...is appearing like a no brainer...
 
#628 ·
HaiderGill said:
THETYRANT said:
Thanks glad your enjoying your setup :)
How r u getting on with the Quaife? I have always toyed with the idea of getting a Quaife but 300lb-ft and 255s on the rear even with greasy roads I'm not getting the traction issues just grip just puts the power down. When the tread wears out, I'm going to try 235s. I want to get a Quaife at that point but I'm also looking to get an Evora or E89 Z4s as weekend toy to pair up with the 120d...Suprisingly the Lotus is winning on practicality and comfort[emoji33]Quieter cabin and more comfortable ride than the 987 Cayman S plus 2 small seats in the back for the kids. Then chuck in the fact that it's a better drivers car the Cayman had no advantages. Coupled with Jap reliability on the engine, gearbox etc...is appearing like a no brainer...
I havent felt the need for a Quaife in this 130i yet ( had one in last car) as with the suspension working as it should along the the E-LSD (these facelift 130's have but earlier car didnt) traction hasnt been an issues even running 225 wide PS4 rear, previously had MPSS in 245 wide on rear and they nearly killed me in the wet when rear let go big style! 245 wide MPSS have such narrow tread cuts they just couldnt clear the water but these 225 wide PS4 have no issues wet or dry so far, ive not pushed them much on track yet but balance of car feels good now with 225 front and rear and on road its perfect with the Koni dampers and bumpstops etc.

To me on the road the Quaife isnt really needed if suspension and tyres are good, if anything it makes the car more lairy which if you want that its a worthwhile mod, i found on last 130 with the Quaife you needed to be very careful on tight junctions in wet if you didnt want to pull off large drifts everytime you set off!, maybe 20years ago it would of been more appealing but these days i just like to make progress without sliding the back every opportunity, must be getting old :D
On track is where the LSD comes into its own but even then if your smooth and rest of car is working good its not as much of an issue as previous cars ive found.

Ian
 
#629 ·
From what I found out is that the FSD, Eibach Pro spring and front SE Bumpstop triumverate is being highly compressed at supersonic speeds on autobahn crests. When this situation occurs the bumpstop starts messing with the frequency of the oscillation. The frequency selective damping in the FSD gets confused by this. The FSD damper is designed to progressively stiffen as it travels during the compression stroke but if the bumpstop comes into play and creates a big increase in resistance it triggers hit a pot hole mode to help the wheel deal with mid corner pot-holes when this situation occurs it goes into soft damping mode. I believe it thinks a pot-hole and the spring compresses and uncompresses too quickly causing the front of the car to feel as if it is being pushed up. So the SE bumpstop is not short enough or progressive enough in stock form to work with FSDs in these situations. I have attached a photo below of the bumpstop next to BMW Performance suspension bumpstop - not my photo. As a first stop I am going to trim the nose of the SE bumpstop so that it looks like the BMW performance bumpstop. I'm thinking the SE bumpstop has lower spring rate than the BMW Performance one. but I don't know the spring rate of the individual bumpstop parts but I am working on the logic if the BMW Performance bumpstop does not have the softer nose part and the fact it should haver a higher spring rate I should be fine. This will allow it to be confirmed if the bumpstop length is causing this issue and if free damper travel will alleviate this situation from occurring. The rear is on the Koni bumpstop and works fine.

Ian wondering why the Koni bump stop used at the rear shouldn't be used in the front too?
 
#630 ·
This is why I didn't get on with the FSD dampers I tried some time back, to be fair I was using them on stock msport bumpstop/springs as it was first aftermarket setup I tried on the bmw so beginning of a long learning curve, however the FSD just isn't clever enough to work on a setup like these with such limited stroke in my opinion and does what you describe.

I have briefly tried playing around with much shorter front bumpstops but without custom coil springs of much higher rate it just doesn't work, the front is very reliant on the Bumpstop to assist the coil spring to prevent car bottoming out, going too short on front bumpstop just makes front of car feel all wrong as there is not enough support to hold the car up, you probably could improve things on your car with either new Msport or BMWP bumpstops but its always a compromise due to the relatively soft coil springs for the stock damper setups, even with Eibach etc which worsens the problem due to reducing travel by being lower.

You get away with shorter bumpstops on the rear as it doesn't see the same loads as the front end of car and due to motion ratio and other parts of design has more travel range, so allowing more damper free travel improves the comfort without too many other downsides unless running car heavily loaded.

I would like to try a custom spring on front but its a lot of work/expense, while on these Koni sport dampers you can remove the lower spring platform and fit a threaded one from a company in the states which along with new tophat allows normal coilover springs to be used, its not cheap though and with such limited damper travel by design you need to run a pretty firm spring (300+lb) to support car which has impact on ride quality, on the Ohlins setup I fitted to my old 135i I tried both 342lb and 300lb front springs and 300 was about right for road but a tad too soft for track, even with a high quality damper like Ohlins there is only so much it can do with the travel available, the stock damper/bumpstop/spring goes a long way to give reasonable compromise it just struggles with bad UK roads.
 
#631 ·
Hmmm yes I'll probably just trim the nose off to shape them like the BMWP ones if that doesn't work then that throws up interesting qns; do I continue with FSDs or get some B4S and pair them up with BMWP bump stops or get the Birds B1 setup for 1kI need a supersonic motorway setup, have to be at the airport on a Monday morning at 0530 to make the flight. Suffice to say the Flying Scotsman is the first role of the 1er, A/B road blasting is a secondary...

I had the FSDs with the Boge Sachs Sport springs and Sport bumpstops and that was just too hard even on 17 inch 205/50s...
 
#632 ·
If you change the dampers ket Koni Sports you wont regret it, avoid Birds stuff its over priced and doesnt do what they say it will for the most part, im sure a stock B6/B8 damper would work just as well for half the price ;)
 
#633 ·
There are two issue that need sorting out: -

1.) Front end is too soft i.e. front bottoms and compresses too much; Eibach Pro spring and SE bump-stop coupled together don't have the spring rate, If the rebound decompression was less bouncy I would live with it as a compromise between everday comfort plus handling, it just need to handle the bottoming out scenario better...

2.) FSD decompression issue

Solutions to the first problem: -

Get a stiffer front spring, easier said than done
Or increase the spring rate via the Sport, M Sport or BMW Performance Suspension bump-stop

I wonder whether the Eibach Pro spring is too soft to hold up the car at the specified height with the bump-stop helping out? I wonder whether the shorter BMWP bump-stop would mean the spring rate would be too soft before it engages the bump-stop.

Backdrop to this was I had the stock Sport springs and bump-stops with FSDs. The damping was fine but the spring and bump-stop coupled together was too stiff...

How soft or hard are the Koni Sport at their softest settings?
 
#634 ·
I also have Koni FSD and Eibach Pro-kit installed on my 116i. In the front I have M-sport and in the rear I have BMWP bump stops. Currently I actually like the front better than the rear. The front is a bit stiff but composed. The rear however is maybe a bit too soft overall. I think this is due to the shorter bump stops, which allow a longer linear travel for the springs. I would prefer a more progressive approach, but currently this doesn't bother me too much.

I like the FSD's a lot, so far I've had zero issues with them, although about 75% of my driving takes place on a poorly patched motorway and the rest in even crappier roads. The FSD's needed some kms to break in though, initially they were very stiff.

The springs however are a different story... to me the Eibach pro-kit doesn't really feel like quality springs, I think they're just intended to people looking to lower the car (and get a rake) without spending too much money. The Eibach pro-kit are actually linear springs for BMW E8x and E9x series, the progressiveness comes from the bump stops (Source: TÜV whitepaper). The (OE) bumps stops are calculated into the spring rates given for the Eibach pro-kit, so I don't think they have very stiff rate either.

My advice would be to keep the FSD's and try differents springs (like the BMWP) and/or bump stops. For example, BMWP springs don't lower the front as much as Pro-kit, so fitting them would give some more free damper travel in the front.
 
#635 ·
HaiderGill said:
There are two issue that need sorting out: -

1.) Front end is too soft i.e. front bottoms and compresses too much; Eibach Pro spring and SE bump-stop coupled together don't have the spring rate, If the rebound decompression was less bouncy I would live with it as a compromise between everday comfort plus handling, it just need to handle the bottoming out scenario better...

2.) FSD decompression issue

Solutions to the first problem: -

Get a stiffer front spring, easier said than done
Or increase the spring rate via the Sport, M Sport or BMW Performance Suspension bump-stop

I wonder whether the Eibach Pro spring is too soft to hold up the car at the specified height with the bump-stop helping out? I wonder whether the shorter BMWP bump-stop would mean the spring rate would be too soft before it engages the bump-stop.

Backdrop to this was I had the stock Sport springs and bump-stops with FSDs. The damping was fine but the spring and bump-stop coupled together was too stiff...

How soft or hard are the Koni Sport at their softest settings?
If you get the BMWP springs I tested they are touch firmer than Eibach but more importantly don't lower the front from Msport ride height so give more damper travel, rear one does lower about 10mm though so probably would leave Eibach on rear, i found BMWP springs a touch to stiff for back roads around here but miss them when pressing on or on track etc, part numbers below.

BMW Performance FRONT Coil Spring - 31336788893 (Label T3 - Estimated rate = 160lb/in)
BMW Performance REAR Coil Spring - 33536788899 (Label T2 - Estimated rate = 420lb/in)

As to if the FSD would cope with them its hard to say, should be ok though, all stock fitment coil springs are too soft on their own as mentioned earlier, needs to work with the bumpstop which makes it difficult to get personal preferences, switching to a quality coilover like Ohlins so you can play around more with springs is only way really if you want to fine tune things, i keep getting tempted to get another set but held off so far as Koni sport setup is a competent all-rounder and price very good in comparison.

Koni sport on softest setting is not much different to stock msport but better control, im currently on +180 which is a good balance on handling and comfort, they are too soft on softest setting if really pressing on with bumpy roads and need that touch more rebound to keep things under control but no big issues with ride comfort.
 
#636 ·
How many turns of adjustment do the Koni sport shocks have in total?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#637 ·
tbt said:
How many turns of adjustment do the Koni sport shocks have in total?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
From memory i think they have 2 full turns so 720degrees, i tend to work in 1/4 turns or 90degrees at a time but you can of course go finer adjustment if needed.
 
#638 ·
Trimmed the SE bump stops over the weekend to look like the BMWP bump stops, thereby increasing the travel. I noticed the suspension was no longer bottoming out. This is to be honest the opposite of what I expected. I think the extra travel freed up means the FSD module can regulate the front springs compressing better. Either way I think I'm going to get the BMWP front bump stops fitted. From memory I could squeeze the SE bump stops with my hands whereas the Sport bump stop I couldn't. I am not sure if that was down to age though as they (Sport bump stops) were 12 years old at the time.

@hatchback

Do you find the soft damping kicks in the front? With my pre-fl Sport springs and bump stops the damping was spot on and authorative but it still lacked compliance due to the springs and bump stops. The M Sports bump stops which are different could well be more progressive as it was said to have a better ride on 18s than the sports on 17s...
 
#639 ·
I haven't had any issues with the dampers going soft. I've read that some people have experienced this, but hasn't happened to me yet, although I have had this setup for some time now.

I can't comment on the differences between the M-sport and SE bump stops, my SE bump stops were 7 years old and went straight to the bin. However, based on the feel of the car you may be right that the M-sport bump stops are more progressive. They should be a bit shorter anyway, although not nearly as short as the BMWP bump stops. Also 116i is the lightest car of the 1 series, so the Eibach pro-kit doesn't lower it as much as some other models. Maybe that is why I also have slightly more free damper travel.
 
#640 ·
Got the BMWP front bump-stops on. Seems a better balance front to back. The SE felt a bit too soft. No bottoming out on this mornings run. The trimmed SE bumpstops also didn't bottom out so may be they give the FSD room for the frequency selective damping to work. Will have to do more testing and get the suspension to bottom out and see what happens but things are looking on the up...
 
#641 ·
Been driving on the A635 around Saddleworth Moor. It's buckaroo road, think they just poured tarmac over the ground, really tests your damping out. Car didn't feel to bottom out and vertical motion was dampened not bouncy or choppy...
 
#643 ·
Just wondering if you any tips to improve steering feel? The E87 120d has number steering feel than the petrol 120i it builds up when you make big movements but for small changes i.e. trimming your line etc...can be numb...
 
#644 ·
HaiderGill said:
Just wondering if you any tips to improve steering feel? The E87 120d has number steering feel than the petrol 120i it builds up when you make big movements but for small changes i.e. trimming your line etc...can be numb...
Is it a facelift car with Epas also what tyres and geo setting etc ?
 
#645 ·
Pre-fl should be hydraulic steering


PS4 225/40 R18 front and 255/35r18 rear. On the rear have some powerflex top mount bushes...
 
#647 ·
Will look into that as I want to get the full SuperPro bush kit installed, would be a good time to do M3 bits and camber plates...
 
#648 ·
hello ,
so i have been thinking of finally upgrading my suspensions, currently i have msport still, what would you recomand for someone who does 3/4 trackdays per year ? i wanted to buy the b1 from birds so i have read few pages of this thread and i tought you were happy with those but then in the last page or something, you said birds stuff are overpriced and not worth it.

basicly i want a suspension that is better than the msport on track but without sacrificing too much comfort if that s possible
thanks
 
#649 ·
I've got the birds b1 kit and I've been 90% happy with it for the last few years ,but the rear is a bit to soft for me , I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a set of kw v2's but would like to spend some time in a kw equipped car .. any volunteers?
 
#651 ·
AndyBish135i said:
Fancy a peddle round Castle Combe on the 17th Oct Mark??? :wink:
Would love to bish but flat out with work at the minute appreciate the offer tho :wink:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top