135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

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docwra
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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by docwra » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:31 pm

Ive used them? :lol:

Ive used Green, Red and Yellow in the past. Red disintegrated after like 6 laps (although TBF came with the car), Green were probably worse than standard and while I dont remember having any major issue with Yellow I do remember thinking the DS2500 were better in every respect.
Granted, they are pretty cheap but when there is much better performance available for not a great deal more money I know where I prefer to go ;)

Caveat: I have been doing trackdays for 20+ years so tend to be looking for a bit more than most users, and as I posted a few weeks back I dont think Id have such a problem with EBC if they didnt present themselves as race pads Id probably be a bit more benevolent toward them :)

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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by Autosri » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:10 pm

I had the same issue with the ebc reds on my e46 one trackday and they were crumbling to bits with chunks of pad falling off
Yellows were okay on the e46 but did feel a bit Wooden when cold for a road pad but were fine but destroyed the disks
None of the normal 2sets of pads to a disk replacement so that’s something to be aware of
I had yellows on my 200sx s14a mainly because a mate can get the on trade so we’re silly cheap and we’re fine

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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by Nyxeris » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:59 pm

All very helpful info, cheers both! The caveat is actually a benefit imho as I'd much rather hear from people that have tried and tested them, especially when for a lot of people giving good feedback the pads might well be the first non-oem ones they've tried.
E81 130i | Build Thread

Poormans
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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by Poormans » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:48 pm

THETYRANT wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:46 am
The stock sliding calipers degrade gradually in my experience so suspect yours could well be you don't notice slight drag of brakes, only way to be sure is monitor temperatures after driving with minimal braking see if any are hotter than others due to dragging. Also it could just be you did a hot stop as well causing a pad print on disc which also causes vibrations or overheated them on a hard run out.
My previous car did 'brake' when going 0,1 mph. This one however feels very loose still..? Haven't got a laser thermo thingy unfortunately.. curious now though.
THETYRANT wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:46 am
Pads wise you need to define "better" as that is a very broad term :D...one persons better means it can handle repeated high speed stops, another persons better might just mean a slight improvement in bite but nothing huge, for normal road use with odd quick blast oem or oem spec pads are generally very good when everything is working as it should be, there are many options when upgrading pads but generally higher the performance more downsides you get like dust/noise etc so its a case of working out how much abuse you need brakes to take first, then seeing if a pad that can handle that will work for all your usage and not too much of a compromise, there is always some just working out what is best for you. As mentioned if you get in touch with me at work I can talk you through options we do and also others that may work, we are primarily competition pads but we do have a street compound as well.
Maybe I should point out I've got the inconspicuous (lci) bumpers. Which I like, but afaik lack the duct to the wheel well. Also I didn't know that a complete set of say.. Carbon Lorraine pads is a lot of effing money! Which makes me wonder if improvement of air flow around the hub would be a wise choice. I assume the main benefit is faster cooling of the disc between braking?

Not quite sure how I should 'measure' my brake use. But I'll try and see if I can get an indication how the current brakes are doing. And figure out what makes most sense to me.
docwra wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:28 pm
Id say (from experience) you want to be looking at Carbotech AX6 or Pagid RSL29 - Endless are wasted on anything that doesnt see the track, my favourite CL's are too harsh a compound for what you are looking for and I dislike EBC intensely :lol:

Ferodo DS2500 are better than stock but I dont think give quite the performance the two Ive mentioned above do, Ive heard good things about Ferodo 1.11 but not used them myself :)
AX6 or RSL29, please elaborate! Any ideas about Stoptech pads?
Nyxeris wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:02 pm
Just out of interest what puts you off EBC? They seem to be the marmite of pads lol!
Funny way to put it :lol: Have read similar things, some happy, some unhappy.

With cheap pads I'm simply assuming people will look for a cheap upgrade. Possibly ignore the tiny discs on their cars, lack of cooling and the condition of their calipers?
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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am

Poormans wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:48 pm

My previous car did 'brake' when going 0,1 mph. This one however feels very loose still..? Haven't got a laser thermo thingy unfortunately.. curious now though.

Maybe I should point out I've got the inconspicuous (lci) bumpers. Which I like, but afaik lack the duct to the wheel well. Also I didn't know that a complete set of say.. Carbon Lorraine pads is a lot of effing money! Which makes me wonder if improvement of air flow around the hub would be a wise choice. I assume the main benefit is faster cooling of the disc between braking?

Not quite sure how I should 'measure' my brake use. But I'll try and see if I can get an indication how the current brakes are doing. And figure out what makes most sense to me.


With cheap pads I'm simply assuming people will look for a cheap upgrade. Possibly ignore the tiny discs on their cars, lack of cooling and the condition of their calipers?
You can still have some slight caliper/pad drag and not feel when coasting in car until it gets much worse, after all these cars are 1.5ton so takes a fair bit of brake drag to notice it, as i say only way to be sure is monitor temperature see if a wheel is hotter than rest.

Cooling is a big part of it when driving fast and working brakes hard and all the E8x Msport bumpers have good airflow into wheel arch which is a bonus, you wont make any noticeable gains in that area without a lot of work and for road use no point anyhows its plenty, even for track in most cases. Fitting bigger discs, calipers, pads etc is the other way to improve the thermal side of things as bigger rotor more leverage so less energy/heat for same amount of stopping power.

By measure your brake use its not difficult just tell us how you use the car ? for example normal road/commuting etc, fast road blasts, trackdays etc etc...from that we can determine the pad that will cope with most extreme part of your usage which is where you need to start, no point fitting a track pad if only road use and not hammering it everywhere, hence why i recommend the OEM for road use as a starting point as that is its main design criteria, if you increase the performance you increase the downsides of more dust, noise, disc wear and purchase price.

If you think CL pads are expensive no point you contacting me for ours :lol: you do get what you pay for though :D

HTH
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Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

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docwra
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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by docwra » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:19 pm

Poormans wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:48 pm
Carbon Lorraine pads is a lot of effing money!
Nowhere near as much as smashing into a barrier because your pads have given up :lol:

I remember many years ago, the first time I went to the Ring I tried to tell my companions (a former European Drift champ and a guy that had done over 1000 laps there) that DS2500's were the bollocks.
They just laughed, I didnt understand at the time but I do now - in Bon's words at the time "Its the difference between realising youve outbraked yourself and having another 5% to call on ....... or not" :lol:
AX6 or RSL29, please elaborate! Any ideas about Stoptech pads?
Im currently running Carbotech AX6 on the back and have had Pagid RS29 on the front. Wouldnt use Stoptech personally but as youve gathered Im only looking at the top end of whats available, as Ian has said below though £350 pads are massive overkill for a car that never sees the track.

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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by Poormans » Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:58 am

THETYRANT wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am
You can still have some slight caliper/pad drag and not feel when coasting in car until it gets much worse, after all these cars are 1.5ton so takes a fair bit of brake drag to notice it, as i say only way to be sure is monitor temperature see if a wheel is hotter than rest.
Not sure how fast is considered coasting.. but for getting a feel how loose the brakes are.. I'd say inches a second! My old car felt tighter then this one, yet hadn't developed any vibrations..?
THETYRANT wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am
.. all the E8x Msport bumpers have good airflow into wheel arch which is a bonus, you wont make any noticeable gains in that area without a lot of work and for road use no point anyhows its plenty, even for track in most cases.
That's the thing, mine hasn't got Msport bumpers! Don't think there is even a duct like my old 118i had?
THETYRANT wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:43 am
By measure your brake use its not difficult just tell us how you use the car ? for example normal road/commuting etc, fast road blasts, trackdays etc etc...from that we can determine the pad that will cope with most extreme part of your usage which is where you need to start, no point fitting a track pad if only road use and not hammering it everywhere, hence why i recommend the OEM for road use as a starting point as that is its main design criteria, if you increase the performance you increase the downsides of more dust, noise, disc wear and purchase price.

If you think CL pads are expensive no point you contacting me for ours :lol: you do get what you pay for though :D

HTH
That would be fast road sir.. With the vibrations I started to doubt the capacity of the brake system.. but you're quite adamant about the capacity of oem-ish pads so it seems more likely I've parked them too hot and/or have degraded brakes.



Doing some more homework with an excellent video from Engineering Explained and stumbling on some more cool brakepad info on mye28 forums.
docwra wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:19 pm
Nowhere near as much as smashing into a barrier because your pads have given up :lol:

I remember many years ago, the first time I went to the Ring I tried to tell my companions (a former European Drift champ and a guy that had done over 1000 laps there) that DS2500's were the bollocks.
They just laughed, I didnt understand at the time but I do now - in Bon's words at the time "Its the difference between realising youve outbraked yourself and having another 5% to call on ....... or not" :lol:

Im currently running Carbotech AX6 on the back and have had Pagid RS29 on the front. Wouldnt use Stoptech personally but as youve gathered Im only looking at the top end of whats available, as Ian has said below though £350 pads are massive overkill for a car that never sees the track.
Can't see myself driving so hard I'll fry the brakes completely.. but predictable properties do sound good. In some graphs they show very consistent temp/friction values. That fascinates me! Maybe it's an option to choose pads that are very consistent up to a certain temperature, then taper off.. that might be a very useful warning.. too keep the ceramic(?) piston tops from disintegrating!
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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by Poormans » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:24 am

Got one caliper on the desk tonight to have a look at reassembling it. Only to discover 2 out of 6 (Autofren) seals are actually tight enough around the (largest) pistons. The other 4 are wide enough to fall of the pistons :cry: Can't believe stuff like this is for sale, it's for 155mph capable car brakes FFS!

Slight sense of deja vu though, did read someone else had a similar experience.. thought that was just a one time mistake.

The rear (Budweg) seals are also too loose. They also have a glossy inside with some metallic effect. Doesn't look right to me at all. Can't see me using this crap on nicely done up brakes and carefully selected pads..
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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by tonirai » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:48 pm

I rebuilt a Msport brake kit for a retrofit in my 120d at the beginning of the year.

Obviously not for any track use, just normal cool street driving, with the ocasional spirited drive.

Dismantled it all with the help of a borrowed air compressor, and changed all the rubber parts with standard autodoc stuff (autofren and another brand which I don't remember the name - one on the front, the other at the back). Pistons were good.

Had them sodablasted somewhere, and them powdercoated it at home in the Mperformance orange. Fitted with Zimmermann discs and EBC redstuff pads.

No problems at all with any of the parts until now.

This was the start and end of the journey:
ImageImageImage

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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by Poormans » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:15 pm

For a diy powdercoat that looks excellent!!

Anyone know if these calipers are anodised? The 135i ones look like they are..?
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Re: 135i slash e8x Performance brakes rebuild

Post by tonirai » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:54 am

When I searched for places to have then sandblasted, I ended up in this place where they don't work with sand but only soda;

The guy, just by looking, wasn't sure if they were or nor anodised, and warnt me that if they were, the sodablast process wouldn't work.

They did the job nicely, so that must mean they are not anodised.

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