Matt’s Road & Track m140

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Matt Scarbro
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:23 am

deanw wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:32 pm
Yeah I know what your saying. I can't make up my mind on which I'd prefer. The straight up handling of the Clio or the softer handling but outright speed of the m140i.

I'll let you be the guinea pig :-).. think my plan is to keep going with the Clio for another year and then maybe sell it and put some of the cash into mods on the m140i.

My main worry for the m140i is cost of repairs due to track days i.e. gear box or engine issues... the Clio is so cheap to repair. my m140i is only a year old so its under warranty but I'm sure they'd wiggle out of it if they could.

I'm doing Oulton on the 21st of Sept if you fancy testing out the new coilovers :-)
I think you’ve got it right with both mate, always nice to have a manual to hussle, and I don’t think I’d want to use the 140 as my primary track car. I drive the MX5s in a way I wouldn’t feel comfortable driving the 140!! And like you say there’s quite a difference in consumables costs!

One positive of so many of these cars getting written off, is that we don’t have to worry quite so much about catastrophic engine or gearbox failures. Of course it would still be a bad day, and honestly a huge disappointment given the way the 20 year old Renaults and Mazdas eat up the punishment in track, but a quick look on eBay shows the worst case scenario isn’t five figures!!!

Current plan is diff and suspension in/on in the 23rd of this month, then I’ve got the front end repairs to do once the bumper has been painted. I’ve also got a couple of vids to record, one introducing the 140 and then one comparing to the M4 in its current state. And the MX5 to fix...

Plenty on but I’ll be sure to report back on the progress, honest expectation is November for first 140 trackday. 👍
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git-r2
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by git-r2 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:16 pm

Matt Scarbro wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:59 am
git-r2 wrote:ll!
Hope yesterday was a belter mate, look forward to hearing how it want and no doubt watching some vids!!

Thanks re the YouTube stuff, appreciate that from a proper car/trackday guy, absolutely our target audience! We do our best not to try and grow the channel through pointless clickbait.... “OMG, I just crashed my new BMW M140i after two days!!!” Image

It’s a good friend of mine, Will that I do the channel with, he’s much better at making the vids than me as he’s a graphic designer by trade!! He’s a dab hand behind the wheel too!

Glad to hear that you don’t think I’m missing out too heavily with the FD, I think I’m if the mind that the M4 would actually benefit more heavily in that regard. It’s power delivery and gear changes feels like it would better suit the tighter ratios. When pushing on in the 140, you do notice the changes not being as snappy and in particular the downchanges perhaps upsetting the car a touch. The track will reveal all!!

I can’t wait to see what sort of times it’s capable of either, I must admit I’m really not sure. Being local to Cadwell now it really is a circuit that rewards lightness over power from my experience, there really is no chasing a well driven Caterham there! Chappie from Tyre Reviews can clearly drive and hussled an M2 around there in 1:42.6 on Trofeo Rs, there’s one in Time Attack with Track mods and some more power that did a 1:41.8 on the same tyres. So I guess those are my baselines to try and get near to, albeit neither as quick as our humble 170bhp MX5!

I’m sure it’s quite a different story as soon as you get to the bigger circuits!! Image
It was, indeed a belter!! :)

The M4 is ridiculously fast and capable for a standard car on track, the best I’ve owned, by far!

It clocked a 2:11, which isn’t great, but virtual lap of 2:08 meaning I might be able to do better. I’ll update my thread but you should get your M4 on track ASAP as that’s where it makes sense.

You must also hurry along with building your m lite because we’re all desperate to see what it can do!! :)

Reckon your 135 will be quicker than the Mx5, but so interested to see!!

Lol that’s the thing with lap times, the reviewers and competitors aren’t always quick, the M2 in time attack was only able to lap Brands in about the same time as my stock ‘13 m135i on MPSS. Yet to see results from snett.


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Matt Scarbro
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:21 am

As ever lots going on, a more interesting update on the 1 series to follow as I’ve been busy with that.

In the meantime though, sadly the M4 came to the end of its lease... What to replace it with? We had thought about a ludicrous X5 M, but that worked out at nearly £200pm more than the 4, 540i would tick a lot of boxes but lacking some of the specialness. M2 Competition would be very interesting but not available with the same lease structure.

So we’ve been incredibly original and replaced it with an all but identical car!
We both simply loved the last one and so we’re delighted to have another the same!

Only differences are HUD on this one, I had dismissed is as a gimmick previously but after a single journey with it I’m a convert.
This one has also got the height of luxury, a heated steering wheel!! You can probably guess that’s more for my partner than me, but I’m sure I’ll appreciate it on frosty mornings!!

Image

Ooh, and not an option I chose but a model revision, turns out they now have a jazzy red starter button!! Must be a race car!

Image


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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:59 am

A little behind with the videos as ever but the M140i Introduction is up now:

https://youtu.be/2SomNTLWaqc


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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Donz » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:41 pm

Hi Matt, interested to read more about your progress, we appear to have similar interests (great date chat!). I’m a 140i daily driver (those duties are important) but I’m local to knockhill and as such get plenty of track time up there. I have a ‘young’ ph1 Clio 172 that occasionally gets an outing too!

I’m on standard adaptive and honestly think they’re very good! Knockhill has a great section of kerb smashing however, that certainly unsettles things and I’m in no doubt a well set up coilovers package will improve all over the track. To date Ive convinced myself lap times are not important, I’m just having a blast, but I’m over it and I’m about to sign up for a sprint series on track (super lap Scotland) so it’s time to change my monologue!

Ive gone with a square 17” setup (225’s which I may now regret on the rear at least!) running cup 2’s (best tyres I’ve ever used). Braided flexi’s, m4 pads (better than standard but in no way track orientated enough imo so I’m thinking pagids but yet to talk to Ian at carbotech......!) and LCA’s. I was going to plum for lsd (m-per for resale reasons) but I’ve decided to go suspension route instead.

The birds b1 set up with eibachs seem logical as daily duties will not suffer and I’m sure track time will be improved but I think I want a little more track orientation !
Funny that you mentioned kw v3’s as with eh ddc option I’m seriously tempted and I like the idea of getting to grips with set up options..... maybe!

The other adaptive option is the b16’s but your Meister set up has piqued my interest and I’d like to know how you get on. There’s a 235i owner here running them who swears by them and is a regular on Nurburgring I gather.

Have you put them through their paces yet? Keen to know how they behave on and off track and what sort of adjustments you’ve made.

I am away to find your YT channel now!
Clio 172 mk2, Impreza blob prodrive,Impreza hawkeye cosworth, 325d Touring, M140i and a ph1 172

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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by topuphere666 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:29 am

Matt. How did I miss you on here! Welcome.

I recognised the front of Listers with the new m4 sat outside!

Just to add, I’ve heard Matt’s M-Lite (usually about 4 miles before I see him) and it is very very loud!

Awesome video of the 140!


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Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:42 am

Donz wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:41 pm
Lots of interesting stuff :)
Hi Donz, bear with me on the suspension front, definitely due an update, but it will take a while!!

In the meantime I seem to hear nothing but positives about the oem adaptive suspension. The only person I’ve heard speak poorly of them is Kevin (?) at Birds who advised me against them... Mr. Elliot certainly showed what they were capable of on his!! :D

Have you driven it much on the 17s? How does it feel?
I love downsizing wheels for the track for cheaper rubber and a gearing boost (I use 13s on the MX5!!). If I were planning track specific wheels for mine I’d drop down to 17s too, but I plan to have a winter set and a summer/track set for the time being at least and don’t want to hurt the looks with smaller wheels.

On the topic of brakes, I had a change of heart, selling the M4 pads as I was nervous they wouldn’t allow me to drive as I want to at the track and Blyton (close to me and my typical new car, lots of run off venue) is very hard in brakes.
Instead I’ve sourced (rang a bloke up and asked him to get me some) some Stoptech Sport pads which is what we use on the ITB’d MX5 to great effect.

Image

You mentioned Carbotechs: I’ve used quite a number of sets of these in various compounds and always been hugely impressed. If the STs won’t do the job I’ll almost certainly be going for a set of XP8s. Ian is also always willing to provide guidance on compound choice and is a cracking chap too!
(The only reasons I’ve not bought CTs for this car are 1, price, and 2. it’s fulfilling daily duties for me and ideally don’t want squealing pads)

Ooh and good on you for making the jump to something competitive! We’re slowly building our MX5 into a race car with the intention of doing a few races in 2020, so are hoping to do a round or two of Time Attack next year to dip our toes! :)
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:01 am

topuphere666 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:29 am
Matt. How did I miss you on here! Welcome.

I recognised the front of Listers with the new m4 sat outside!

Just to add, I’ve heard Matt’s M-Lite (usually about 4 miles before I see him) and it is very very loud!

Awesome video of the 140!
Hey Sam!! :thumbs:

It is a bit loud isn’t it! Just that bloody cold start that kills me a little EVERY time!! :oops:
Once that’s gone I’ll love the sound!

Pleased you like the 140 vid, plenty more recorded and planned, quite time consuming though so I’m often behind with the vids!
M140i / M4 CP / old fun Japanese stuff

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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by topuphere666 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:52 am

Matt Scarbro wrote:
topuphere666 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:29 am
Matt. How did I miss you on here! Welcome.

I recognised the front of Listers with the new m4 sat outside!

Just to add, I’ve heard Matt’s M-Lite (usually about 4 miles before I see him) and it is very very loud!

Awesome video of the 140!
Hey Sam!! :thumbs:

It is a bit loud isn’t it! Just that bloody cold start that kills me a little EVERY time!! :oops:
Once that’s gone I’ll love the sound!

Pleased you like the 140 vid, plenty more recorded and planned, quite time consuming though so I’m often behind with the vids!

What needs to change to reduce the noise?


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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:12 pm

topuphere666 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:52 am
What needs to change to reduce the noise?
Cold start delete will be enough for me, the sound is great once on the move, but the cold start is just daft.

Sam already knows this, but for anyone else reading I’ve sold the JB4 and am impatiently waiting for BM3 to become available so I will have cold start delete through that.

I’m also contemplating adding a having a sports cat added to the BMS mid-section, perhaps where the second of the two oem resonators is. Reason for this would be to make MOTs easier when the time comes and remove the potential for a nasty fine for removing the cat.

Whilst I’m far from an expert when it comes to turbos in particular, it seems to be the case that restrictions further from the turbo are less harmful to performance, hence thinking about adding one in the midpipe rather than swapping the decat for a sports cat downpipe.

I think it’s pretty quick considering it’s now standard apart from the decat and mid pipe and I think the big 4.5” ER downpipe really helps it to breathe.
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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Donz » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:22 pm

:oops: I had not considered STs... I shall have a look. I intend on timing for the first time (sshhh!!) at a trackday on the 4th nov so I’d like to have this question answered. In reality I’m quite happy to do 3 hot laps and then 3 slow so these maybe great. I’d like to avoid howling dogs on the work commute too so if they’re quieter than say the rs29’s I’d be delighted.

The 17’s are better across the board frankly. They don’t look the best but I recently had them painted black and I actually quite like them now! Way cheaper to run good rubber as you said and moving them corner to corner helps get good life out of them. Khill regularly does reverse laps too which helps! Much more fun that way for reference!

I almost went the decat dp jb4 route but decided against it. I’ve have mp exhaust and a blue spark box which has been fantastic bang for buck. I’ve recently been in touch with a few tuners who have now cracked the b58 ecu. Eco-tune in Glasgow are at top of my list to visit. Standard cats in place 430bhp and 650nm. Perhaps too much without lsd and 255 rears?! I may even be slower!!! Bigger smile though perhaps!!
Clio 172 mk2, Impreza blob prodrive,Impreza hawkeye cosworth, 325d Touring, M140i and a ph1 172

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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Donz » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:24 pm

F8C88DBF-1BFB-408A-B916-3EF7732EB4FF.jpeg
On track
F8C88DBF-1BFB-408A-B916-3EF7732EB4FF.jpeg (140.42 KiB) Viewed 106 times
On track ...
Clio 172 mk2, Impreza blob prodrive,Impreza hawkeye cosworth, 325d Touring, M140i and a ph1 172

Matt Scarbro
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Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:08 am

Donz wrote:
F8C88DBF-1BFB-408A-B916-3EF7732EB4FF.jpeg
On track ...
Looking good there! (I like the side blades!!)
Surprising how flat it looks as well!

Yeah I think you’re right about these power numbers, in all honestly, the only time I used map3 on the JB4 was when I took someone out in it to ‘show them what it could do’!!
IMO the chassis is the weak link at standard power and 420+ on the near standard chassis I had was just foolish!! Image

The intention on track is to use standard map, hopefully the BM3 provides a way of changing fairly quickly to suit. I’m sure there will be times where it’s fun to unleash the beast fully too!!

Main reason for wanting to retain the big open, downpipe is for keeping spool time to a minimum (I never know if that’s the right term, I mean responsiveness).

Not sure if I’ve mentioned it in this thread, my intention with wheels and tyres is square, like you, but an 18”. I don’t really want to go black wheels as the cars black so 17s might look more obviously out of place.

I keep seeing a set of R888s on eBay for £420 delivered and resisting the temptation to buy them! Something like an AD08r is what I really need, just need to find them at more sensible money...


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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by Matt Scarbro » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:01 am

Right, suspension update!

This hasn’t gone as I would have hoped, but Jerrick (Meister R owner) has built up a fair bit of goodwill with me over the years and is doing whatever’s necessary to ensure I’m happy with the outcome. It’s just been a bit of a pain in the meantime.

In short I went over to Dave Welsh (top chap) to have a Quaife fitted and thought I’d treat myself to having the suspension fitted at the same time - save me an afternoon of spannering and it should make for an awesome transformation!...

Anyhow, diff went fine, but Meister Rs were assembled incorrectly so once together it was clear there was a problem. Dave and Gary (?) quickly identifies this and rectified before I returned. However once back in the car there was a rattle from the front offside. Much diagnosis went on, struggled to work out exactly where it was coming from, smaller rattle also on the near side.

The chaps were kind enough to spend a chunk of their time investigating and to his credit Jerrick provided some idea from across the pond on his Sunday morning.

Time ran out for us without having found a cure and I headed home. By the time I reached home (120 miles) the rattle had reduced but was still apparent, first impressions were that the damping was potentially very good.

I exchanged some messages with Jerrick who was very helpful and responsive. And over the next couple of weeks I took the coilovers off the car a couple more times to make changes suggested. This has resulted in further reduction of the rattle but it’s still there.

I have also managed to round the top Allen key recesses in the struts I an attempt to get them as tight as possible, not ideal!!

So I have a rattle that needs sorting still and Jerrick has agreed that he will have them rebuilt, replacing anything damaged and returned to me assembled 100% correctly and ready to put on the car.

The second challenge (I’m hesitant to call it a problem as we all have different requirements), is that I don’t think the rates are suited to my use.
The coilovers have 7/12kg springs F/R and for me they’re too harsh for the low speed village stuff and poorly surfaced B roads around here. They aren’t at all harsh compared to other coilovers I’ve used in the past, but my requirement was to attempt to improve on factory ride quality.

They also don’t provide confidence when riding over humps in the road, there’s something of a bucking sensation. Initially I had put this down to the heavy rear spring rate, but in comparing the rates used to standard as well as other aftermarket springs and those on the M4, I’m beginning to thing it’s the fronts that are too heavy.
The M4 by comparison has c. 4/12 rate and feels beautifully tied down.

So I’m currently doing some research and trying to find time to take the front suspension off to send back to Meister R.
My current thinking is to ask Jerrick to drop the rates to something like 4-5/10 and see what that feels like.

It will be interesting to see if the bucking sensation disappears with the soft H&R fronts on when I take off the front Meister Rs.

So not quite plain sailing, though I must say Jerrick is determined to put things right and the time taken to this point is due to me struggling to find time to work on the car rather than anything at his end.


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Re: Matt’s Road & Track m140

Post by THETYRANT » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:42 pm

Oh that's a shame on suspension Matt, seems your yet another of the meister r guinea-pig customer which seems all to common from what I keep seeing and the reason I keep going to other brands, jerrick makes it all sound so good but issues you've had seems all to common and to me not acceptable, especially at the price tag they are asking for these, after all the Gt1 are meant to be a ohlins rival according to jerrick marketing speak but they seem far from it which is a shame..

I'm sure it will get sorted eventually though and look forward to your reports :)

Ian
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Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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