handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

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simyo
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handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by simyo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:32 am

Hi guys !

First of all, there is a lot of information on this forum, I would like to thank you for this :D
I've read the suspension quest from the Thyrant and also other suspension and handling topics.

Due to my leaky OEM shock, i've replaced all shocks with B4s.
I can feel the difference, the car is handling better now but I feel that there is room for more improvement.

So I ordered the TRW JTC 1423-1424 tension struts with the TRW JTC 1426-1427 wishbones (LCA's).
From what I read this should improve the handling better on the front.
But is it necessary to do the camber pin mod? After changing the wishbones?

Oh and do I also need some other part than the xenon regulation rod?

And what about the rear?
Do M3 rear wishbones and guide rods improve the handling relative to the normal ones?
I could not find an exact answer for this..

I've also read a lot about replacing the subframe bushings to M3 ones. I am thinking to replace the subframe bushings. After all my car has already 230000km's on it.
But what about the other bushings??
There are 2 other bushings with partnumber: 33326770829 (rubber-mount roll over strut according to realoem.com) and 33176760287 (rubber-mounting front)
These two bushings, are they last a lifetime? or is is smart to replace these two bushings also??

As last: Which ARB's ? I would love to reduce the rolling of the car without getting oversteer and/or understeer..
I read that most people upgraded their front ARB's to the E90 M3 ones and rear ARB's to 15mm from an 335i...but are there other combinations like a Whiteline front ARB with a M3 rear ARB?
Do I also need to replace the stabilizer supports when changing the ARB's or can I use the ones on the car?

Many thanks for your answers 8)
Last edited by simyo on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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THETYRANT
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:38 am

All depends how far you want to go and how much you want to spend i guess, getting the basics right is first thing so as your have replaced the Dampers that is a good start, what did you do regarding bumpstops when dampers went on? these were probably ready to replace when dampers were done especially fronts which tend to break up quite bad over the years.

Front Arms wise Front M3 LCA/wishbone makes most difference and adds camber which along with camberpin mod will give around -0.7deg at front, some get little more varies car to car but more camber really helps these cars, the M3 LCA also have better inner bushes which improves ride quality as well, the Tension arms dont make a huge difference if stock ones are not leaking, they do however add some harshness to ride due to stiffer nner bush which some notice some dont, new stock spec arms or middle ground Meyle HD are both alternatives if M3 arms prove to harsh.

Rear arms no need to replace with M3 unless you want better looks as that is all they offer, no geo changes from them like you get with front.

Rear subframe inserts are a worthwhile mod as well and nearly as good a full M3 bush replacement without the hassle,


ARB wise, rear dont touch it but fitting M3 on front makes a difference, there are 2 options on those as well with E93 vert one being firmest, ive ran both options over years and non-vert one is mild but noticeable and vert one another step on, i wouldnt worry about ARB until rest of suspension is all sorted.

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

simyo
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by simyo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:23 am

Hi Ian !

Many thanks for your answer :)

Bumpstops? Do you mean those yellow things which are in the dust cover kit? I've used new parts from Sachs, nr 900 133
Those were for sportsuspension so I think it is okay?

Or are bumpstops totally different?

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THETYRANT
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:37 am

simyo wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:23 am
Hi Ian !

Many thanks for your answer :)

Bumpstops? Do you mean those yellow things which are in the dust cover kit? I've used new parts from Sachs, nr 900 133
Those were for sportsuspension so I think it is okay?

Or are bumpstops totally different?
Yes thats them :) i call them bumpstops but they are not just that they assist the coil spring also so are very critical to suspension and handling, good that you replaced them and those should be ok.

Did you reuse coil spring or replace those also ?
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

simyo
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by simyo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:15 pm

Hi Ian :)

Great! Yeah luckily I ordered those also because from the old ones, there was almost nothing left of it :D

But the springs..I did not order new ones...
But I can order new ones..

Which springs do you recommend with B4s?

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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:47 pm

If stock springs are ok then fine to keep using them if they suit your needs, all depends what you want to do in terms of lowering/stiffening etc, what model of car exactly do you have ? and is it Msport spec etc ?

I
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

simyo
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by simyo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:59 pm

THETYRANT wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:47 pm
If stock springs are ok then fine to keep using them if they suit your needs, all depends what you want to do in terms of lowering/stiffening etc, what model of car exactly do you have ? and is it Msport spec etc ?

I
I have a 2006 120D. It came with the full M package from the factory. It came with sportsuspension.
Now driving with 18" wheels and there is almost no space between the tyre and the wheel arch.

Image

So for the lowering part, it is fine by me :D

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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:31 pm

OK next i would go M3 LCA and whiteline rear subframe inserts as next step, this should make a noticable improvment, keep an eye out for M3 ARB to try and help reduce body roll.
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

simyo
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by simyo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:35 pm

THETYRANT wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:31 pm
OK next i would go M3 LCA and whiteline rear subframe inserts as next step, this should make a noticable improvment, keep an eye out for M3 ARB to try and help reduce body roll.
Great !! thanks Ian :)

It is actually a timesaver if the Whiteline inserts are placed over the standard bushings!

:spotman:

btw, do you also recommend a E82 rear strut brace? or is this impossible on my chassis?

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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:59 pm

Yes the rear subframe inserts are nice and easy as well as pretty quick to install, just be careful lowering subframe down you dont strain the brake flexi that goes from subframe to floorpan.

Do you mean the rear chassis underbrace/tension strut from E82 and E81/facelift E87 cars ? my current car has factory fitted one being facelift E81 130i and i must say the rear feels a lot less wobbly than my previous E87 cars that didnt have one, so much so i still havent got around to fitting my rear subframe inserts on this car as with this brace its much better supported.

You can retro fit this to earlier cars i think and sure i saw a thread on here somewhere.... Marco will know i think it was his thread ?

Edit to add here is thread i mentioned above - viewtopic.php?f=20&t=82814&p=1068530&hi ... 3#p1068530
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

simyo
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by simyo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:15 pm

yes, I mean the rear chassis underbrace/tension strut from E82.
Perhaps this can be my last mod for handling improvement :)

simyo
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by simyo » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:25 pm

I was looking in to the whiteline inserts if they would fit my car.
It seems that the inserts are only for cars with an automatic gearbox.

I have manual gearbox.

Also on realoem the rear subframe bushings for manual transmission and automatic transmission differs.

So are there any members who have a manual and put inserts on their car?

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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by THETYRANT » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:29 am

Yes most if not all of us on here with subframe inserts have Manual gearbox, including myself on my last pre-fl 130i (haven't fitted to current car)

I know there is one model that uses a different insert but most use the same ones, I will have a look see if I can find details.

Edit to add: looks like autos and some early manual cars are different maybe going from a quick search on here, but not found any definitive info on it sorry so hopefully MP or someone will be able to add to this..
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

simyo
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Re: handling improvement E87 pre-LCI

Post by simyo » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:36 pm

I also looked into this 'problem'.
Looks like early cars indeed had different bushings..
From first build to late 2005...

Anyway my car is from 2006 so the Whiteline inserts will do fine !

Thanks Ian !

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