My Suspension quest! 130i

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fmn716
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by fmn716 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:00 am

THETYRANT wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:46 am
fmn716 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:58 am

On front not a huge difference, on rear they make it very firm/bouncy as even at stock height the car uses bumpstop as a coilspring assist to support car when fully loaded, downside is when car isn't fully loaded rear pogo up and down over bumps, lowered its even worse.
So if you upgrade the rear to bmwp does it make it less bouncy ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The BMWP rear bumpstop allows around 11mm more free damper travel before it starts to ramp up spring rate, so on stock msport springs yes it makes it a little less bouncy at rear end because of this, if your lowered its going have some effect but maybe not huge amount, how low are you running ? what springs etc ?

Ian
[/quote]

I currently have the H&R blue springs

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:31 am

fmn716 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:00 am
I currently have the H&R blue springs
Is it mega low ? i see H&R offer 2 spring options like eibach for these cars either -60mm Front &-40mm Rear, or milder version -40mm Front & -30mm Rear. dont know if they come in different colours or not though to tell which is which.

If lowered over msport i would get the shorter again Koni bumpstops as per this thread, these allow approx 30mm more travel and helps rear end a lot!
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

Mr Whippy
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Mr Whippy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:36 am

These cars are a bit odd.

I’d happily add 10-15mm at rear and lose 10-15mm at the front.


I’m sure I’ve seen people make up springs but can’t be sure.
Heat them up at the free length you need, then cool, and any old rate spring should take up the new free length.

Or is it a bit more complex?
130i LE - exhaust flap mod - ssk & bmwp & M3 gbox mounts - bmwp handbrake - bmwp steering surround - camber pin mod - cdv delete - koni SA & bmwp front bump & koni rear bump

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:47 am

Mr Whippy wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:36 am
These cars are a bit odd.

I’d happily add 10-15mm at rear and lose 10-15mm at the front.


I’m sure I’ve seen people make up springs but can’t be sure.
Heat them up at the free length you need, then cool, and any old rate spring should take up the new free length.

Or is it a bit more complex?

The Eibach Pro kit gives you near exactly that from Msport from what ive seen :) slight drop on front ~10mm and touch up on old msport rears about same amount.

Modifying springs is a no no as heating them alters properties, ive recently had some custom springs made to my spec for my old 91 Celica GT4 RC by a place in Sheffield because decent springs (not slammed!) are no longer available for that car, i wanted a mild rate increase and 15mm drop same as the they should of been on RC/Carlos Sainz models like mine from factory ( someone had fitted non-RC springs on car before it came over from japan) so custom was my only option, on the 1 series there are lots of options and Eibach Pro sound just what you need, only downside is its a touch firmer on rear i found but with good damper not an issue really. I did toy with custom springs for my 1series but not worth the hassle.

I must say the 1series platform is hard to get a good balance of comfort/handling/sporty feel etc, hence me trying so many different kits! :D
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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SuperMoose2403
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by SuperMoose2403 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:25 am

For mine I have the performance springs (which have a little drop compared to m sport, but probably not as much as others). With this though, I also have the Dinan rear top mounts which give an extra 10mm of travel (so counteracts any loss of ride hide drop). Add in the Koni bump stops, the dampers have decent travel available overall.
135i N54 :D
BMWP Exhaust, Spoiler, Mirror Caps, Diffuser, Grilles and Springs / N55 Mids / Carbon Interior / WSP Basel M / Darklines / M3 Front + Rear Arms / M3 Front ARB / Koni Special Active / M3 Gearbox Mounts / Whiteline Inserts / Clubsport Gearknob

Mr Whippy
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Mr Whippy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:24 pm

Yeah it's difficult to really think about the ride/handling balance without doing a full analysis first to see where it's setup out of the box.

Front/rear ride frequency balance would be a good starting point I suppose.

BMW obviously compromised the rear end quite a bit due to passengers/luggage, and the rear wheels are quite 'forward' relative to other hatchbacks, so even more demand on the rear springs to control that potentially large variable mass.
On my Golf V R32 for example, the front axle is well back, the engine over the front, and the rear overhang is small, so the extra passenger/luggage mass is clearly spread better for consistent loadings, from driver only to full passengers and luggage.

Then you have RFT. And possibly even considerations for 125i range, and then how that might interfere with the 135i, and then the M models.


Doing what Birds did makes some sense, but I think they probably could have gone further in some areas and not as far in others. Not even revealing their ride rates and roll stiffnesses put me right off as I could be buying something I won't like right out of the box.
And having read your 'no test drives' approach to their sales technique I do wonder how well you could get to know the setup.
And once you've bought it, well, buyers remorse turns into buyers cognitive dissonance haha.
130i LE - exhaust flap mod - ssk & bmwp & M3 gbox mounts - bmwp handbrake - bmwp steering surround - camber pin mod - cdv delete - koni SA & bmwp front bump & koni rear bump

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:24 pm

Indeed and as mentioned suspension feels different to everyone with some more sensitive to small differences to others, this is why i read as much as i could then just decided to test them all myself! :D sure ir cost me i suppose but it was kind of fun as well, labour was all my own and i was able to sell on kits i tested with minimal losses so in the grand scheme of things not so bad and i learnt a lot!
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

themermade
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by themermade » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:36 pm

what the consensus between the road and the race black bushes from powerflex? https://powerflexstore.co.uk/bmw/e81-e8 ... 2004-2013/

Mr Whippy
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Mr Whippy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:03 pm

The race ones are for racing cars.

The standard ones are for people who want a car that vibrates all over and feels broken to your passengers.


If you’ve not tried new OE then chances are they’ll be a big upgrade for old worn bushings.
130i LE - exhaust flap mod - ssk & bmwp & M3 gbox mounts - bmwp handbrake - bmwp steering surround - camber pin mod - cdv delete - koni SA & bmwp front bump & koni rear bump

Donz
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Donz » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:05 am

Is there a link available for the koni bump stops for the m*40’s? I have a set of the mper ones but I’d like to try these with my eibach pro springs. Thanks.
Clio 172 mk2, Impreza blob prodrive,Impreza hawkeye cosworth, 325d Touring, M140i and a ph1 172

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:35 am

Donz wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:05 am
Is there a link available for the koni bump stops for the m*40’s? I have a set of the mper ones but I’d like to try these with my eibach pro springs. Thanks.
Why do you want to change would be my first question ?

The koni item we use on E series car is a universal one from there range which I found fitted well on damper rod and dust cover also as a bonus, its shorter to allow more rear damper travel/soften up ride on bad roads but downside is softer overall rear spring rates, not so good for heavy loaded cars or smooth road/track use, not sure how the rear setup is on the F series cars like M140 etc and if it would benefit from changing to shorter bumpstop or not, do you have picture of stock and BMWP versions ?
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

Donz
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Donz » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:58 pm

I would be using them in conjunction with slightly stiffer springs so I see your point however, on track and particularly knockhill, the use of the kerbs can be quite unsettling so my plan was to give the dampener more chance to ...dampen before the bump stops made contact. The Mper BS is about 10mm shorter than standard on the adaptive M*40 set up.
Clio 172 mk2, Impreza blob prodrive,Impreza hawkeye cosworth, 325d Touring, M140i and a ph1 172

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:21 pm

Donz wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:58 pm
I would be using them in conjunction with slightly stiffer springs so I see your point however, on track and particularly knockhill, the use of the kerbs can be quite unsettling so my plan was to give the dampener more chance to ...dampen before the bump stops made contact. The Mper BS is about 10mm shorter than standard on the adaptive M*40 set up.
I'm not sure how much your car is propped up by the bumpstop, if it's like the earlier cars then there might be some benefits although for track it might be a downside.

I would say first thing is to pop dust cover off rear damper so you can see how much free travel you, tbh for track quality coilovers with suitable spring are probably the best answer, if you like to pound kerbs ohlins dfv are superb for that I found in past.
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

Donz
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Donz » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:23 pm

I'll do that and see. I had (wrongly) thought that this had been donw by several users before me!

I know what you are saying re coilovers but I decided to put my pennies into an LSD.
Clio 172 mk2, Impreza blob prodrive,Impreza hawkeye cosworth, 325d Touring, M140i and a ph1 172

Mr Whippy
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Mr Whippy » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:52 pm

Another day another drive with my Koni SAs.

I did a 42 mile run the day I picked it up, and was taking it steady.

Today I did another local trip of about 32 miles and put the car onto some rougher roads that I know well... with some really rough patches etc.

The SA really do make completely screwed up roads much more tolerable. I was running through a specific rough patch where the top surface has kinda delaminated with the old underneath. It's got linear ruts, holes and all manner of patches with a partially missing layer of maybe 5-7cm thick.
Normally I just grimace and go through at 30-35mph, and avoid the big/sharp stuff.
Today I just went through at 45mph and it felt smoother than anything else really. No slams/crashes, no bangs, no real feeling of discomfort at all.

Then the rest of the time the car is just like the standard dampers felt (I didn't drive much with them, and they were old at 100k etc, but hey), sharp and BMW like.


The car is still being weird and scary on these odd tyres though so new F1s will be going on soon, probably with an alignment if the feel still isn't instantly better. I've got a feeling the alignment isn't ideal, so that might be the final tidy up of the handling issues.


I still think some of the percieved handling issues with this car though is the damn seats. Half the pogo/bouncing seems like it comes through them and it's really hard to gauge wtf is actually going on at the chassis/wheels haha.
I'd have M perf seats in an instant but no electric, and no lemon ones haha :D
130i LE - exhaust flap mod - ssk & bmwp & M3 gbox mounts - bmwp handbrake - bmwp steering surround - camber pin mod - cdv delete - koni SA & bmwp front bump & koni rear bump

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