My Suspension quest! 130i

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Zombie_Head
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Zombie_Head » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:44 am

I am looking at front upper and lower M3 arms myself.

There is a debate on 1addicts regarding the cheaper TRW brand vs genuine BMW ones, the price difference is massive, almost 4x more for the BMW ones.

I contacted ECS tuning in the USA, and they claim that there is zero difference between them as well as they have installed them in plenty of E8x and E9x cars without issues on and off the track.

I would like to hear your opinions, if i should go with TRW ones or OE ones, since i will be tracking the car heavily (5-6 track days a year) and last thing i want is some major suspension component failing.

I will be getting genuine M3 rear subframe bushings and ST suspension 28mm front and 15mm rear sway bars as well (they come painted black which helps hide them from local TÜV so i can drive without registering them for a bit).

Anyone tracked with TRW arms without issues?
2012 E82 125i - VIN 51467 - 330i/130i front discs (330x24) - Alpine White - Brown Leather

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:05 am

TRW arms are perfect quality some say they even make them for BMW but i dont know how you could prove that, certainly no problems running TRW arms M3 spec or otherwise.

Ive just fitted a pair of Non-M3 TRW front tension arms to my car as one of my stock arms was making a creaking noise at parking speed, took some tracking down source of noise as there was no noticeable excessive play etc in any bushes or arms that i could find, and car just passed its MOT so tester thought same, however the drivers side inner bush on tension arm did feel a little more squidgy so as they are both 10years old/60k miles i thought i would change them anyhows see if it cures noise and thankfully it did, also car feels a lot sharper as a result so win win!. On closer inspection of inner bush you can see signs of the rubber breaking up on ones i took off.

One thing i did notice is the Non-M3 TRW arms look to have had the BMW/ M logo ground off same as M versions so no doubt the same alloy casting, inner bush bush wise and also it looks like they have manually removed at least one of the webs from it so im wondering if the M and non-M are identical before the web is removed, its a while since ive seen a M version tension arm to compare so if you get some a picture of inner bush would be interesting.

Edit to add looking at picture on following link the M arm has a much solider inner bush and alloy centre is different also - https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996479

Ian
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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tbt
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by tbt » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:09 am

TRW are the supplier to BMW for these arms so all they do when they sell them under the TRW brand is to grind off the ///M markings.
It’s surprising they are allowed to do this. I can only assume they own the tooling otherwise this sort of thing isn’t allowed.
They are every bit as good as BMW branded arms.


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2006 E87 130i BMWP Parts-[Exhaust/Intake/Fr & Rr Brakes/Strut Brace/SS Kit]
M3 Parts-[Rear Subframe/Rear upper arms/Front Tension & LCA]
Quaife LSD, Bilstein B12 kit, Megan Racing toe arms, E46 M3 trans mounts, CDV delete

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fmn716
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by fmn716 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:20 am

THETYRANT wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:05 am
TRW arms are perfect quality some say they even make them for BMW but i dont know how you could prove that, certainly no problems running TRW arms M3 spec or otherwise.

Ive just fitted a pair of Non-M3 TRW front tension arms to my car as one of my stock arms was making a creaking noise at parking speed, took some tracking down source of noise aswas no noticable excessive play etc in any bushes or arms that i could find and just past MOT so tester thought same, however the drivers side inner bush on tension arm did feel a little more squidgy so as they are both 10years old/60k miles i thought i would change them anyhows see if it cure it and thankfully it did, also car feels a lot sharper as a result so win win. On closer inspection of inner bush you can see signs of the rubber breaking up on ones i took off.

One thing i did notice is the Non-M3 TRW arms look to have had the M logo ground off same as M versions so no doubt the same alloy casting, inner bush bush wise it looks like they have manually removed at least one of the webs from it so im wondering if the M and non-M are identical before the web is removed, its a while since ive seen a M version tension arm to compare so if you get some a picture of inner bush would be interesting.

Edit to add looking at picture on following link the M arm has a much solider inner bush and alloy centre is different also - https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996479

Ian
The M3 and Non M3 Tension Arm look almost identical except for the bush. So I have bought non M3 ones and might consider adding polyurethane silicone if I want them stiffer

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Zombie_Head
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Zombie_Head » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:35 am

fmn716 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:20 am
THETYRANT wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:05 am
TRW arms are perfect quality some say they even make them for BMW but i dont know how you could prove that, certainly no problems running TRW arms M3 spec or otherwise.

Ive just fitted a pair of Non-M3 TRW front tension arms to my car as one of my stock arms was making a creaking noise at parking speed, took some tracking down source of noise aswas no noticable excessive play etc in any bushes or arms that i could find and just past MOT so tester thought same, however the drivers side inner bush on tension arm did feel a little more squidgy so as they are both 10years old/60k miles i thought i would change them anyhows see if it cure it and thankfully it did, also car feels a lot sharper as a result so win win. On closer inspection of inner bush you can see signs of the rubber breaking up on ones i took off.

One thing i did notice is the Non-M3 TRW arms look to have had the M logo ground off same as M versions so no doubt the same alloy casting, inner bush bush wise it looks like they have manually removed at least one of the webs from it so im wondering if the M and non-M are identical before the web is removed, its a while since ive seen a M version tension arm to compare so if you get some a picture of inner bush would be interesting.

Edit to add looking at picture on following link the M arm has a much solider inner bush and alloy centre is different also - https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996479

Ian
The M3 and Non M3 Tension Arm look almost identical except for the bush. So I have bought non M3 ones and might consider adding polyurethane silicone if I want them stiffer
Please forgive me, what i am about to do is basically have both front upper and lower arms upgraded to M3 ones, for more camber and the stiffer bushing. The question is either OE directly from BMW or TRW ones.
2012 E82 125i - VIN 51467 - 330i/130i front discs (330x24) - Alpine White - Brown Leather

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 am

Zombie_Head wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:35 am

Please forgive me, what i am about to do is basically have both front upper and lower arms upgraded to M3 ones, for more camber and the stiffer bushing. The question is either OE directly from BMW or TRW ones.
TRW will be just as good as getting Bmw branded ones from dealer so upto what you want to spend, be aware the M3 tension arm does transmit more NVH into the cabin due to its stiffer inner bushing, some people say they dont feel it some do but for me as my car is primarily road use i try to keep any extra NVH to a minimum.

For reference below is a comparison of the tension arm inner bushings on both M and non-M, interesting to see the split bush design on the M3 version but im sure there is good reason.

Image
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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fmn716
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by fmn716 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:25 am

I have the Meyle HD non M ones so it should be stiffer than stock but softer than the m3 ones

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:27 am

fmn716 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:25 am
I have the Meyle HD non M ones so it should be stiffer than stock but softer than the m3 ones
Yes that Meyle HD is a good middle ground and what i fitted on my last 130 with no extra NVH, i would of done same this time but was donated a TRW non-M arm by a kind member on here for one side of car, so bought a matching item for other side :)
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

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Zombie_Head
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Zombie_Head » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:48 pm

I appreciate it guys.

Locally i can only source TRW arms and Lemförder ones, Meyle ones are not listed.

But my point was, going non BMW ones is still fine, even on heavily tracked vehicles.
2012 E82 125i - VIN 51467 - 330i/130i front discs (330x24) - Alpine White - Brown Leather

eastldn87
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by eastldn87 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:24 pm

Been browsing this forum on and off for a couple of years and my god this was a good read - had to register just to throw my two pence in!

Btw - buy 4 get 1 damper free on Koni sports shocks at Larkspeed. It will be the cheapest one that gets discounted on the final invoice from Larkspeed.

As a result I've taken the plunge and decided to upgrade a few bits on my E87 130. ;)

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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Mr Whippy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:20 pm

One of my rear shocks is kaput, probably why the car has been a bit scary to drive at speed!

My independent quoted Sachs for Msport on 130i at £131.52 inc vat for pair. Likely OE but who knows...


But I’m sorely tempted to swap to something better.

Koni Sport adjustables seem interesting.

However has anyone tried Koni Special Active on a 130i yet?


I’m a road user and personally find the 130i to ride nicely.
I wouldn’t want it any firmer for ride concerns. But the idea of firmer damping with a soft edge on rough roads seems hard to argue with.

???
130i LE - exhaust flap mod - ssk & bmwp & M3 gbox mounts - bmwp handbrake - bmwp steering surround - camber pin mod - cdv delete - koni SA & bmwp front bump & koni rear bump

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:23 pm

Not tried the new special active but did try the older fsd (see earlier in thread) but much prefer the koni sport for better and more consistent ride imo.
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

Mr Whippy
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Mr Whippy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:01 pm

Did you try FSD with any bump stop changes?

It seems many describe handling traits with FSD referring to conventional damper functions.
Ie, big bumps etc are still in the remit of normal shaft speed vs force dynamics.

FSD and SA are using frequency to alter rebound damping.

SA specifically are firmer in bump and rebound damping generally.

They just reduce rebound force vs velocity curve at high frequency of shaft oscillation (not speed, that’s still higher force at high speed)... ie, they go to comfy rebound on high speed oscillations so the suspension doesn’t get compressed up and run out of travel and get rough.

It is hard to visualise this behaviour, and how it can achieve the results via frequency, not just shaft speed.


I’m a road only driver, live in Yorkshire Dales on mixed roads similar to Cumbria.

I assume a koni SA refresh with koni bump stops will be at least as good as new OE spec dampers?

Ie, no nasty downsides?
130i LE - exhaust flap mod - ssk & bmwp & M3 gbox mounts - bmwp handbrake - bmwp steering surround - camber pin mod - cdv delete - koni SA & bmwp front bump & koni rear bump

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THETYRANT
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by THETYRANT » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:51 am

Regrettably bumpstops on my FSD were stock Msport as I knew no better back then :oops: , certainly they would of been messing things up and would like to try again with shorter ones for reference as sure there would be improvement.

However my issues with the FSD which im sure will be very similar with newer SA is that there just isn't the tech for that price point for it to work as Koni promise, im sure they will be better than stock dampers though but having compared the way Koni FSD works compared the the Ohlins DFV on several cars including 135i, Evo9, GT86 and MX5 its a much more advanced system and as such its night and day different with price to match, Ohlins just swallows larger bumps like they are not even there! its quite an amazing feeling as you brace for the impact of a pothole or kerb on track and you just feel nothing!

If your happy with stock dampers performance (which isn't bad when all working etc) then just sling some Bilstein B4 with new/shorter bumpstops on there :D
--
Now on my 3rd 130i, this time a nice E81 in Graphite, Previously 2 x 130i and 2 x 135i

Camber plate project - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=96465

Suspension Quest thread - http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=80208

Mr Whippy
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Re: My Suspension quest! 130i

Post by Mr Whippy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:56 am

Well I’ve had new B4 to replace a leaked front OE damper at 125k miles on my old Z4 and it still rode like crap haha.
So I’m not a fan of those as they’re not cheap either.


The choice for me is more.

OE Sachs (cheap and apparently OE spec, just not from BMW with double price)
Koni SA
Koni Sport at full soft

All probably with bmwp bumpstops.


I just can’t help but worry that Sport are quite £££ once fitted and tracked up, to find out the ride on full soft is still harsh.
Suspension is such a ball ache due to all info being mostly anecdotal.

I’d have Öhlins in a heartbeat if they did a road kit or just a quality road damper, but it’s all mega stiff stuff for track cars.
130i LE - exhaust flap mod - ssk & bmwp & M3 gbox mounts - bmwp handbrake - bmwp steering surround - camber pin mod - cdv delete - koni SA & bmwp front bump & koni rear bump

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