Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

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padders
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by padders »

You can in fact find MX40i cars with both types of tyre since it was a tick box no cost option when ordering the car. RFTs do have safety and convenience advantages but the circumstances when they help are limited. If you get a slow puncture or a big blow out then they are no better than a regular tyre. I've had maybe 3 slow punctures over the past 10 years and no fast decompressions of the kind that would require a RFT to keep going. There is also the fact that they perform less well than regular tyres, they necessarily have stiffer sidewalls and don't come as Supersports grippy designs, they tend to be more touring biased designs. My summer tyres are the std MPSS but my winter wheel/tyre set (which also I used on a previous F20) are RFTs on the basis I don't fancy being stranded when in driving snow etc but even there I will likely change to regular tyres for those next time, maybe all weathers in fact. RFTs just don't really solve the problem of tyre deflation well enough to warrant the downsides IMO.
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by 50pence »

Good runflats offer a lot of advantages, they can get you off a motorway in the event of a puncture, and perhaps even get you home, they offer much more stability in the event of a blow out and they provide a very sharp turn-in due to the stiffer side walls. They can feel harsher though it's a matter of optimising the pressures, not too hard and not too soft. As with any tyre too high a pressure will make them feel harsh and prone to tramlining as well as increased wear in the centre of the tread. Too low a pressure and they'll also feel a little harsh as the load is transferred through the reinforced sidewall rather than the cushion of air.

In short good contemporary runflats are 99% as good as the best supersport tyres on a dry summer Sunday afternoon though 200% better when you really need them.

--


--
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by padders »

50pence wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:06 pm Good runflats offer a lot of advantages, they can get you off a motorway in the event of a puncture, and perhaps even get you home, they offer much more stability in the event of a blow out and they provide a very sharp turn-in due to the stiffer side walls. They can feel harsher though it's a matter of optimising the pressures, not too hard and not too soft. As with any tyre too high a pressure will make them feel harsh and prone to tramlining as well as increased wear in the centre of the tread. Too low a pressure and they'll also feel a little harsh as the load is transferred through the reinforced sidewall rather than the cushion of air.

In short good contemporary runflats are 99% as good as the best supersport tyres on a dry summer Sunday afternoon though 200% better when you really need them.
You say this regularly, I know you are a big fan of the S001. It seems you are a lone voice though. I don’t see anyone else agreeing with your let’s face it made up 99% figure. I had the S001 for 4 years. It was ok but the ride was poor and grip average next to MPSS. Oh and then there is the fun and games of getting a RFT with a slow puncture repaired. Have you tried yet? Out of the 6 or so national chains, only one will agree to do it and even then they charge double a regular tyre. No thanks.
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by MrE30 »

Just went for the test-drive, it's so much nicer than a Golf R - driving position and dynamic are so much better. Annoyingly, someone beat us to the dealership unbeknownst to us and put in a finance application this morning, but it sounds like this might fail so we're getting ready to step-in.

I did notice a few points though which I'd appreciate a little guidance on if possible:

1. There's a large chip on the windscreen, which we will probably be asking them to deal with given they'll have trade prices. It showed as an advisory last year on the MOT so presumably it's been filled-in. Just curious if anyone's had a comparable quote on replacing a windscreen?

2. Also, has anyone had experience with Churchill tyres? Looks like the dealer added a brand new set all around but it's a brand I've never even heard of.

3. The left exhaust tip was closed on start-up, and I'm wondering if this is normal? I'm aware of the rattle issue so just curious if this is related or if it's part of start-up procedure.

4. Final question is mostly my lack of experience with modern cars - I'm based in London so bit wary of thefts; the key fob needed to be unlocked before entry so I understand this isn't a keyless entry, or is just that it's not been enabled on this? I've bought a steering lock for overnight and will likely be looking into the Ghost immobiliser but does this count as a keyless entry car? I've seen the thieves' trick about boosting key signal to allow entry and start-up without the key but I think that might be irrelevant here but as I said, I'm a total novice.
OneTwenty wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:18 am Just to answer a few questions from above.

1. They don’t come with RFT as standard so no problem. I’ve ran both ours on none RFT since 2010 (for the e91), and touch wood, no issues so far.

2. The ZF box is solid and they don’t go wrong. Some do whine, mine does every now and then, but it doesn’t affect them. They are also cheap secondhand as demand is low due to how good they are. You can pick a used box up for £6-800 ish.
padders wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:47 am You can in fact find MX40i cars with both types of tyre since it was a tick box no cost option when ordering the car. RFTs do have safety and convenience advantages but the circumstances when they help are limited. If you get a slow puncture or a big blow out then they are no better than a regular tyre. I've had maybe 3 slow punctures over the past 10 years and no fast decompressions of the kind that would require a RFT to keep going. There is also the fact that they perform less well than regular tyres, they necessarily have stiffer sidewalls and don't come as Supersports grippy designs, they tend to be more touring biased designs. My summer tyres are the std MPSS but my winter wheel/tyre set (which also I used on a previous F20) are RFTs on the basis I don't fancy being stranded when in driving snow etc but even there I will likely change to regular tyres for those next time, maybe all weathers in fact. RFTs just don't really solve the problem of tyre deflation well enough to warrant the downsides IMO.
Awesome, that's helpful to know, thanks again. Also, hope I've not started a forum beef over RFTs, haha.

Thanks again for the help chaps.
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by OneTwenty »

50 pence likes RFT, nobody else does! I wouldn’t have them for free. :lol:

Is this car from a BMW dealer? I’d be very wary of any garage putting junk Chinese tyres on a car with 500nm of torque, they should only be run on premium tyres, Michelin, Goodyear etc. I wouldn’t buy it until they swap those tyres.

What’s the vehicle spec? Post up so we can have a look.
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by RyStarr »

The left exhaust tip isn't closed (at least on the standard back box) - the reason for the fumes/vapour/fuel to only be spat out of the right hand exhaust tip on start up is due to the design of the exhaust system itself.

If I am not mistaken - the M140i has a single exhaust pipe leading to the back box which connects on the O/S (driver side) and the back box gives the impression it is fed by two separate exhaust pipes, or...the pipe leading to the back box connects to the center - either way: it doesn't lol.

Hence the stuff coming out of the right hand side and not the left - because that's exactly where the exhaust gases enter the back box, therefore they will shoot out of the nearest possible exit first.

Long story short - it's completely normal :D
Late 67' M140i LCI - Alpine White: >>> viewtopic.php?t=134977 My thread :spotman:
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by MrE30 »

OneTwenty wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:10 pm 50 pence likes RFT, nobody else does! I wouldn’t have them for free. :lol:

Is this car from a BMW dealer? I’d be very wary of any garage putting junk Chinese tyres on a car with 500nm of torque, they should only be run on premium tyres, Michelin, Goodyear etc. I wouldn’t buy it until they swap those tyres.

What’s the vehicle spec? Post up so we can have a look.
It's an independent dealer - it's a one-owner car (5 door, 2017 model M140i, auto, pro nav, standard suspension) and I understand the dealer acquired it from BMW lease auction. The dealer's done a good job with the valet to be honest as it looks fantastic in photos and in person, but they've clearly fitted new tyres on the cheap and I'll need to factor that in to price negotiations - wondering if I can do a swap for better tyres plus money from a local fitter.

Hope you don't mind, but I'll post a pic once I know I'm buying it.
RyStarr wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:40 pm The left exhaust tip isn't closed (at least on the standard back box) - the reason for the fumes/vapour/fuel to only be spat out of the right hand exhaust tip on start up is due to the design of the exhaust system itself.

If I am not mistaken - the M140i has a single exhaust pipe leading to the back box which connects on the O/S (driver side) and the back box gives the impression it is fed by two separate exhaust pipes, or...the pipe leading to the back box connects to the center - either way: it doesn't lol.

Hence the stuff coming out of the right hand side and not the left - because that's exactly where the exhaust gases enter the back box, therefore they will shoot out of the nearest possible exit first.

Long story short - it's completely normal :D
I was just surprised as the dealer started the car up and you could see smoke from the d/s exhaust but not the other, so I put my hand behind both and felt no gas coming from the passenger side. I got on the ground and could see the valve was closed on the passenger side, but didn't know enough to say if that was unusual.

What you say makes sense though, thanks for the explanation. Just googled the exhaust set-up and I see what you mean, feel a bit cheated now haha
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by msej449 »

padders wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:50 pmYou say this regularly, I know you are a big fan of the S001. It seems you are a lone voice though. I don’t see anyone else agreeing with your let’s face it made up 99% figure. I had the S001 for 4 years. It was ok but the ride was poor and grip average next to MPSS. Oh and then there is the fun and games of getting a RFT with a slow puncture repaired. Have you tried yet? Out of the 6 or so national chains, only one will agree to do it and even then they charge double a regular tyre. No thanks.
I like the S001 and have replaced two of them with the same tyre in the last 4 years. The ride isn't 'poor' and the grip is as good as any other tyre I've had, and better than some other prime brands. THe same refusal to repair applies to goflats - if the tyre outlet thinks the damage is too serious they'll say the same about a goflat. It's marginal. And twice in the last 8 years I've had a runflat get me home and to the dealer the next day when I'd otherwise be on the hard shoulder of the M25 or in the middle of nowhere at night with a flat.

My caveat is that I do have a separate set of winter wheels and tyres, so I don't use the S001 in the winter. But as summers, I'm happy with them.

The concern about the Churchill tyres is sound, however (if these are the ones made in China/Vietnam). These are no way the right tyres for such a powerful car. Runflat or Goflat is up to you, but budget to get them replaced and factor this into any negotiation with the retailer. A typical performance tyre is made up of over 600 separate components - you can save a lot of money by halving the number but it won't be a good tyre. Take a look a the TYres section of the Forum and you'll see the main brands people fit.
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by 50pence »

msej449 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:19 pm
padders wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:50 pmYou say this regularly, I know you are a big fan of the S001. It seems you are a lone voice though. I don’t see anyone else agreeing with your let’s face it made up 99% figure. I had the S001 for 4 years. It was ok but the ride was poor and grip average next to MPSS. Oh and then there is the fun and games of getting a RFT with a slow puncture repaired. Have you tried yet? Out of the 6 or so national chains, only one will agree to do it and even then they charge double a regular tyre. No thanks.
I like the S001 and have replaced two of them with the same tyre in the last 4 years. The ride isn't 'poor' and the grip is as good as any other tyre I've had, and better than some other prime brands. THe same refusal to repair applies to goflats - if the tyre outlet thinks the damage is too serious they'll say the same about a goflat. It's marginal. And twice in the last 8 years I've had a runflat get me home and to the dealer the next day when I'd otherwise be on the hard shoulder of the M25 or in the middle of nowhere at night with a flat.

My caveat is that I do have a separate set of winter wheels and tyres, so I don't use the S001 in the winter. But as summers, I'm happy with them.

The concern about the Churchill tyres is sound, however (if these are the ones made in China/Vietnam). These are no way the right tyres for such a powerful car. Runflat or Goflat is up to you, but budget to get them replaced and factor this into any negotiation with the retailer. A typical performance tyre is made up of over 600 separate components - you can save a lot of money by halving the number but it won't be a good tyre. Take a look a the TYres section of the Forum and you'll see the main brands people fit.
Repairs - I agree that runflats shouldn't be repaired unless it's definite that they haven't been driven on while flat except for a few metres to get out of danger, of course the same goes for a goflat though they're less likely to be driven on while flat. Most tyre centres will repair runflats for customers they know and trust though the big chains might have a corporate policy I guess. Aside from which runflats still offer massive advantages and little or no disadvantages.

Re winter use, the S001s are reassuring when it's cold and wet, much better than MPSS in this regard though no summer tyre will be as good as winters in the snow and ice clearly.

Totally agree about the need for premium tyres on one of these cars, the fact they've fitted cheap tyres would make we worry if they've cut corners if they've serviced it. Though if it has BMW history and all the seller has done is valeted it and fitted new tyres then no worries once decent tyres are fitted.

--
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by Shagga_P »

You can view the service history in the cars idrive under ‘my vehicle’.

They are on a condition based schedule but roughly speaking they get a basic service and oil change every 2 years. For me that’s too long, I prefer to change oil yearly.

I would definitely use the cheap tyres as a negotiating point. I would not fit runflats. They don’t always save you anyway, they are heavier, more expensive and ride/handle worse than an equivalent non-runflat. The cars come with a ‘mobility kit’ which has a compressor and tyre sealant. The type of basic puncture that a runflat can cope with can also usually be sealed and inflated with the mobility kit. All 4 of my current cars don’t have a spare tyre and none have runflats.

Definitely have them replace the screen with a genuine one at their cost. They are expensive due to the cameras in the windscreen.

The zf box is very reliable and bmw don’t consider them as a service item but most people (me included) think it’s worth having the fluid and oil pan/filter replaced at around the 4 year mark. It’s not particularly expensive.

The charge pipe failure it’s not a 140 fault. It was an n55/135i fault.

I wouldn’t bother with buying a warranty.

With the exhaust valve it’s behaviour can be a little confusing. If you switch to sport mode it will be mostly open but it can be closed at idle/low rpm then open above a certain throttle %/rpm. If it doesn’t seem to work, first make sure it’s plugged in and that the little clip that connects the motor to the valve is there. If there is something wrong the motors are really cheap and easy to get. Usually any problem is due to a bent or missing clip. It’s an easy fix.

You mainly want to look at the usual used car things like any unusual wear, any body damage or evidence of paint or repair, evidence of panels having been removed and replaced.

If the cheap tyres were fitted by the owner that can be a bad sign. The kind of people who buy cheap tyres typically cheap out on other stuff too. But dealers fitting cheap tyres for a sale is sadly normal.
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by padders »

50pence wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:02 pm
msej449 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:19 pm
padders wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:50 pmYou say this regularly, I know you are a big fan of the S001. It seems you are a lone voice though. I don’t see anyone else agreeing with your let’s face it made up 99% figure. I had the S001 for 4 years. It was ok but the ride was poor and grip average next to MPSS. Oh and then there is the fun and games of getting a RFT with a slow puncture repaired. Have you tried yet? Out of the 6 or so national chains, only one will agree to do it and even then they charge double a regular tyre. No thanks.
I like the S001 and have replaced two of them with the same tyre in the last 4 years. The ride isn't 'poor' and the grip is as good as any other tyre I've had, and better than some other prime brands. THe same refusal to repair applies to goflats - if the tyre outlet thinks the damage is too serious they'll say the same about a goflat. It's marginal. And twice in the last 8 years I've had a runflat get me home and to the dealer the next day when I'd otherwise be on the hard shoulder of the M25 or in the middle of nowhere at night with a flat.

My caveat is that I do have a separate set of winter wheels and tyres, so I don't use the S001 in the winter. But as summers, I'm happy with them.

The concern about the Churchill tyres is sound, however (if these are the ones made in China/Vietnam). These are no way the right tyres for such a powerful car. Runflat or Goflat is up to you, but budget to get them replaced and factor this into any negotiation with the retailer. A typical performance tyre is made up of over 600 separate components - you can save a lot of money by halving the number but it won't be a good tyre. Take a look a the TYres section of the Forum and you'll see the main brands people fit.
Repairs - I agree that runflats shouldn't be repaired unless it's definite that they haven't been driven on while flat except for a few metres to get out of danger, of course the same goes for a goflat though they're less likely to be driven on while flat. Most tyre centres will repair runflats for customers they know and trust though the big chains might have a corporate policy I guess. Aside from which runflats still offer massive advantages and little or no disadvantages.

Re winter use, the S001s are reassuring when it's cold and wet, much better than MPSS in this regard though no summer tyre will be as good as winters in the snow and ice clearly.

Totally agree about the need for premium tyres on one of these cars, the fact they've fitted cheap tyres would make we worry if they've cut corners if they've serviced it. Though if it has BMW history and all the seller has done is valeted it and fitted new tyres then no worries once decent tyres are fitted.

--
I think the situation about repairing them has got worse recently. Over the winter I tried several places (inc several independents) and got static nearly everywhere. Kwik Fit, Plume (small local chain), National, etc etc and all as you suggest cited a corporate policy to not touch any RFT even when not driven on and even with just a single central puncture leading to a slow deflation. I got it done eventually at ATS which was lucky as I needed them again a month later for another tyre but it is a worrying sign.

I do agree that I’d certainly trust a decent RFT like the S001 over a crappy Chinese ditchfinder regular tyre. I’d never go back to the RE050A RFT though. Those were truly awful and gave the whole concept a bad name.
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by Superlevure »

OneTwenty wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:18 am Just to answer a few questions from above.

1. They don’t come with RFT as standard so no problem. I’ve ran both ours on none RFT since 2010 (for the e91), and touch wood, no issues so far.

2. The ZF box is solid and they don’t go wrong. Some do whine, mine does every now and then, but it doesn’t affect them. They are also cheap secondhand as demand is low due to how good they are. You can pick a used box up for £6-800 ish.
Where can I find used ZF boxes? (And where are they from?)
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by OneTwenty »

Superlevure wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:49 am
OneTwenty wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:18 am Just to answer a few questions from above.

1. They don’t come with RFT as standard so no problem. I’ve ran both ours on none RFT since 2010 (for the e91), and touch wood, no issues so far.

2. The ZF box is solid and they don’t go wrong. Some do whine, mine does every now and then, but it doesn’t affect them. They are also cheap secondhand as demand is low due to how good they are. You can pick a used box up for £6-800 ish.
Where can I find used ZF boxes? (And where are they from?)
They pop up on eBay every now and then.
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Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by MrE30 »

Thanks again for all the replies - update is I've put a deposit down while they work on a few bits of the car. There's a chip in the windscreen that they're sorting this week and they've agreed a price reduction given we will be changing the tyres so fingers crossed, collecting this weekend.

Will post a pic in here of course!
msej449 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:19 pm The concern about the Churchill tyres is sound, however (if these are the ones made in China/Vietnam). These are no way the right tyres for such a powerful car. Runflat or Goflat is up to you, but budget to get them replaced and factor this into any negotiation with the retailer. A typical performance tyre is made up of over 600 separate components - you can save a lot of money by halving the number but it won't be a good tyre. Take a look a the TYres section of the Forum and you'll see the main brands people fit.
To be honest I am leaning towards the RFTs on this, just because I want it for long journeys and the lack of spare tyre is something I can't get over (especially as my wife will be using this quite a bit).

I'm currently reading the tyre subsection. EDIT: Looks like Bridgestone Potenza S001s are the ones to go for.
padders wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:50 pm Totally agree about the need for premium tyres on one of these cars, the fact they've fitted cheap tyres would make we worry if they've cut corners if they've serviced it. Though if it has BMW history and all the seller has done is valeted it and fitted new tyres then no worries once decent tyres are fitted.
Your last line is correct, the dealer picked-up the car and just fitted some cheap tyres which I can only find for sale on eBay. I told the dealer he can take the current tyres once I'm replaced them, reckon they'll be a nightmare to shift otherwise...
Shagga_P wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:45 am You can view the service history in the cars idrive under ‘my vehicle’.

They are on a condition based schedule but roughly speaking they get a basic service and oil change every 2 years. For me that’s too long, I prefer to change oil yearly.

I would definitely use the cheap tyres as a negotiating point. I would not fit runflats. They don’t always save you anyway, they are heavier, more expensive and ride/handle worse than an equivalent non-runflat. The cars come with a ‘mobility kit’ which has a compressor and tyre sealant. The type of basic puncture that a runflat can cope with can also usually be sealed and inflated with the mobility kit. All 4 of my current cars don’t have a spare tyre and none have runflats.

Definitely have them replace the screen with a genuine one at their cost. They are expensive due to the cameras in the windscreen.

The zf box is very reliable and bmw don’t consider them as a service item but most people (me included) think it’s worth having the fluid and oil pan/filter replaced at around the 4 year mark. It’s not particularly expensive.

The charge pipe failure it’s not a 140 fault. It was an n55/135i fault.

I wouldn’t bother with buying a warranty.

With the exhaust valve it’s behaviour can be a little confusing. If you switch to sport mode it will be mostly open but it can be closed at idle/low rpm then open above a certain throttle %/rpm. If it doesn’t seem to work, first make sure it’s plugged in and that the little clip that connects the motor to the valve is there. If there is something wrong the motors are really cheap and easy to get. Usually any problem is due to a bent or missing clip. It’s an easy fix.

You mainly want to look at the usual used car things like any unusual wear, any body damage or evidence of paint or repair, evidence of panels having been removed and replaced.

If the cheap tyres were fitted by the owner that can be a bad sign. The kind of people who buy cheap tyres typically cheap out on other stuff too. But dealers fitting cheap tyres for a sale is sadly normal.
Thanks for the comprehensive reply mate, this is very helpful. The tyres absolutely were a bit of a red flag but I know the dealer just did a cheap job replacing them, so it's lessened my concern - the car itself is 4 years old and a one-owner car, and its honestly in excellent condition so I feel quite reassured.

I do appreciate a large number of you opt to fit non-RFTs but my own mental block given the lack of spare tyre means I can't bring myself to go the same route.
MrE30 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:01 pm 4. Final question is mostly my lack of experience with modern cars - I'm based in London so bit wary of thefts; the key fob needed to be unlocked before entry so I understand this isn't a keyless entry, or is just that it's not been enabled on this? I've bought a steering lock for overnight and will likely be looking into the Ghost immobiliser but does this count as a keyless entry car? I've seen the thieves' trick about boosting key signal to allow entry and start-up without the key but I think that might be irrelevant here but as I said, I'm a total novice.
On this point, I've bought a few of those RFID pouches to store the keys in when at home and will be looking into the immobiliser as I mentioned already.
F20 M140i (Melbourne Red)
OneTwenty
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Location: Lancashire

Re: Advice before buying an M140i (newb!)

Post by OneTwenty »

Good news on the car. :)

But, don't fit RFT, it ruins the car. :(

Nobody opts to fit RFT to the 40is, these cars come as standard with the MPSS none run flat tyres as BMW themselves deemed the car to work better on normal tyres. But if you want, you can have an RFT fitted instead as a no cost option. But bear that in mind, they come as stock fitted with non RFT tyres.

RFT are fitted to about 0.1% of the Mx40is, and for good reason. You are compromising the handling and ride of the car on the 0.0001% chance you may get a puncture. It would be like wearing snow boots every time you went out of the house on the off chance it snowed. ;)

I drive all over the UK in both our cars and never had an issue. In fact I've only had 1 puncture since starting driving in 1990!! :lol:
66 M240i Coupe, MW, Coral, Auto, Vis/Comfort/Sun, Pro Nav, Heated Wheel/Seats, Elec Seats/Lumbar, Adaptive, Camera/Park Assist, Speed Lim, HK, Split/Fold, WiFi/EBT, F/M

09 320d E91, Silver, Pro Nav, BT, Auto L/W, Ht/Leather, SPG, Cruise
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