To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Find out more about the BMW 1 Series F20, F21, F22 & F23
Manufactured from end of 2011

Moderators: Rich196, babybmwadmin, marco_polo, Producethis, Lambster

User avatar
Barney McGrew
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by Barney McGrew » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:03 am

It's all a bit of a non-issue to be honest. Of course winter tyres are better in winter, the name of them sort of answers the question ;)

The real question is whether they are right for any one person.

If you don't rely on the car, live more in the south and generally don't mind leaving the car at home in the worst of the weather then don't bother with winters. I had them once and they are brilliant, but I've probably never 'needed' them other than two occasions in 10 years, so now I don't bother and simply have a pair of snow socks in the boot in case I get caught out.

If you rely on the car and have to be out regardless of weather and especially if living in the north, then winters are pretty much a must have.

To be honest, if I could have found a set on ebay I would have got them for this season, but finding a set that fit over the blue calipers is a royal PITA, couldn't find anything on ebay recently, at least within driving distance as most are pick up sales only.

User avatar
sootyvrs
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Posts: 6339
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm
Location: The Boro

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by sootyvrs » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:21 am

Barney McGrew wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:03 am
To be honest, if I could have found a set on ebay I would have got them for this season, but finding a set that fit over the blue calipers is a royal PITA, couldn't find anything on ebay recently, at least within driving distance as most are pick up sales only.
There are plenty of suitable wheels available on ebay to fit over the calipers but the problem when we have a start to a severe winters everyone goes into a panic and the demand swamps supply on the likes of ebay to get winter wheels at this time of year..

I got my car in August this year and I purchased my 397 wheels (off ebay) for only £300 with TPMS whilst it was still summer and also bagged winter Conti TS830 tyres for £200 which had 8mm tread at the same time.. Planning ahead is the key to getting plenty of choice and bargains..

I know I will easily sell the wheels for a similar cost (if not a bit more) if I decide to sell up so really the cost of doing this is minimal as when my winter tyres are in use my summer tyres are not getting worn so minimising the need to replace summer rubber..

As to the don't need winter tyre debates.. Been here before so not gonna try and change anyones mind as most have the I'm right and you're wrong mentality so unlikely to change... Keep safe everyone :)
My BabyBMW's with some Pork inbetween :D
2018 F87 BMW M2 DCT
2017 F21 BMW M140i Auto
2015 F56 Mini Cooper S Man
2013 F20 BMW M135i Auto
2010 R56 Mini Cooper D Man
2007 E87 BMW 130i Man

User avatar
NISFAN
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:46 pm
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by NISFAN » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:48 am

spl23 wrote:https://ralphhosier.wordpress.com/2012/ ... the-truth/ gives some information.

It's not just serious wheelspin, it is to do with the tiny amount of slip a treadblock experiences before it grips - "But interestingly at temperatures below the critical 7°C a winter tyre will actually wear down less than a summer tyre because the tread slips less."
Good article, thanks.

Even better is the Q&A underneath. My background is Plastics and rubber, and I have a particular hate of the 7degC reference. As has been put by another poster on that site, the Tg of various tyre rubbers are well below freezing, and changes in modulus due to temperature is very slow and stable at the 0-10degC mark. There is no sudden change at molecular level that makes one rubber useless at 7 degC.

My understanding is that many years ago, tyre companies used an alloy of two natural rubbers to make tyres. In the laboratory, there is a cross over of modulus at exactly 7degC between these two rubbers. When I say crossover, I’m talking a very gradual. Winter tyres used a higher percentage of the ‘softer’ compound than summer tyres, and therefore there was a line in the sand difference for the marketing team.

Rubber compounding has changed so much since then, so the original 7 degC is no longer applicable, but still used as a marketing tool benchmark.

When I spoke to a tyre specialist, he actually said with the advancements in rubber compounding, summer and winter tyre compounds for his brands were actually very similar. The magic was in the tread pattern and general construction more than rubber compound. His line was, you can’t put many sipes into a block of soft rubber, so rather use a harder, wider temperature range rubber and add more sipes. Tyre companies biggest challenge being the wide temperature range the average public wanted tyre to perform well under.

Interesting topic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M240i Auto

User avatar
Ezzra
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 738
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:54 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by Ezzra » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:08 am

You are absolutely right Gordon, about the 7 degrees myth.
I was watching a programme recently when a journalist asked a tyre engineer about 7 degrees. The engineer replied it is arbitrary and an agreement between tyre companies as a 'base line'. He went on to say forget the temperature and look at the tread.
My MPSS look like cut slicks compared to my son's winter tyres that have huge tread blocks and are covered with sipes.
It's dry and minus three here today. I drove my M135i on MPSS. I didn't die in a fireball :)
"You cannot sedate, all that you hate".

User avatar
Barney McGrew
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by Barney McGrew » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:42 am

sootyvrs wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:21 am
There are plenty of suitable wheels available on ebay to fit over the calipers but the problem when we have a start to a severe winters everyone goes into a panic and the demand swamps supply on the likes of ebay to get winter wheels at this time of year..
Yes that's definitely the problem, there are a few around, but non in my area if you see what I mean (within reasonable driving distance anyway).

I'm going to get through this winter without and will look in spring/summer when people might get rid after the season is over so i'll be ready for next year.

msej449
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:51 pm
Location: Brighton UK & La Tzoumaz CH

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by msej449 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:51 pm

dave1343 wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:46 pm
Fact that you've been 'fitting them for years' and this is the first heavy snow you've had proves that they are in fact - not worth it.
I can't see the logic in this if you're going to be owning the car for 3+ years. Tyre cost is about the same, winter/summer. In that time, you'll need to replace the tyres if you have just one set. So why not get winters? The summers will last proportionally longer.

I've also been 'fitting them for years' and every year, they've proved their worth. Because it's cold and wet in the winter and a 322BHP RWD car benefits from them, even in the UK, even if it doesn't snow. Their value in snow is icing on the cake of their general value in winter.

I agree that can be difficult to balance the pros/cons depending on how you use the car, where you are, if it's a daily-drive or a 2nd car etc. But I would never tell someone not to get them because it doesn't snow in the UK very often.
2016 M235i Convertible Estoril Blue, Oyster+HGB; BMW M Performance LSD

BFleming
Knowledgeable Member
Knowledgeable Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:40 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by BFleming » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:51 pm

There are always going to be the naysayers who have no experience of winter tyres, so experience all year round on the same type of tyre. My personal experience is that I spent a good few years living in southern Germany, where winter tyres are mandatory (IF the conditions dictate it). And believe me they make a huge difference to the ability to accelerate/steer/brake safely. Not just in snow - also ice or rain. The rubber compound in winter tyres stays more supple at lower temperatures than summer tyres. If you think it's a big con by the tyre companies / motoring organisations / manufacturers / motoring press, then you may well live in a paranoid world. Or you just enjoy winding up people on internet forums.
I run 2 sets of tyres on my car, some 16's with quality winter tyres (Goodyear UltraGrips are the best I've experienced) and some 18's for summer. The winters go on the car at the start of November & come off in late March, then the summers go on. As pointed out above, my tyres collectively last twice as long, mostly as there's twice as many of them! So no particular economic argument. Just a safety one, which does it for me.
On a lighter note I was the only car to get out of my road on Sunday. 10 mins earlier my neighbour had told me 'you'll regret 2 BMW's now'. No problem to either car.
2013 BMW F20 114i SE
2013 BMW F11 525d SE
2000 Porsche 986 Boxster 2.7
1983 Porsche 944

edbutler
Knowledgeable Member
Knowledgeable Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:21 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by edbutler » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:55 pm

I managed to bag a set of E85 steelie 16's with 6-7mm Bridgestone Blizzaks for my 120d Xdrive for £100 on eBay. After an offset nightmare and needing 10mm&20mm spacers, i got a bargain at £150 total.

i think the 7 degree theory is rubbish, but i usually go for December to Mid March as a rule.

The car (xDrive) can now run rings around the usual 4x4 brigade in snow. I'd still be happy having paid 4x more as you no longer get the 'snow anxiety'. They will also give you tiny bit more control on black-ice which is invaluable.

msej449
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:51 pm
Location: Brighton UK & La Tzoumaz CH

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by msej449 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:09 am

I used to work for Pirelli and the 7°C thing is just an indicator. People often want to be given a figure of some sort, so that figure is 7°C. It's meant as a guide: if you find you're commuting regularly in, say 4°C ish temps then you'll probably benefit generally, and more so on colder days. If you don't take your car out in the cold, garage it in favour of a runabout, commute by train etc. etc. then you may decide not to bother with winters. The figure has got a bit set in stone and people seem to expect some dramatic change when it drops to 6°C - which doesn't happen and isn't claimed by the manufacturers.
2016 M235i Convertible Estoril Blue, Oyster+HGB; BMW M Performance LSD

User avatar
Barney McGrew
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by Barney McGrew » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:36 am

msej449 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:51 pm
I can't see the logic in this if you're going to be owning the car for 3+ years. Tyre cost is about the same, winter/summer. In that time, you'll need to replace the tyres if you have just one set. So why not get winters? The summers will last proportionally longer.
This is how I viewed it when I last had them.

The summer tyres ended up lasting a lot longer because you're obviously not using them in the winter months. So you could argue the winters are saving you the cost of buying summer tyres more often, which means you can put more pricey summer rubber on :)

Also when the winters are past their prime, who doesn't like the odd burnout :twisted:

kriswork
Experienced Member
Experienced Member
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by kriswork » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:48 pm

Had to go to Glasgow (from Swindon) on Sunday and back via York for my son's university interviews - would never have made it off the drive without my winter tyres.
Haven't really needed them for the last couple of winters, but proved their worth on that trip.
Winter tyres fitted - now where's that snow.

Neilb
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:42 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by Neilb » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:52 pm

Having had Vredestien Winters on my E60 and swearing by them I'm now on the lookout for a set for my F20. As said you may only need them a couple of times a year, but if you are car-dependant for work then its a no-brainer to me...

User avatar
MontegoBlue
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by MontegoBlue » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:40 pm

They are a no brainer, especially with the amount of idiots on the roads, beggars belief sometimes!

I think peoples opinions are changing towards them though - my local garage has been inundated about requests for winter tyres...times are changing.

My Black E91 has lovely steel wheels on from Nov - March (do I care what my car looks like, not really, I am sitting inside it most of the time, I do get some weird looks and one person actually said to me, "..cant you afford alloys" :lol: ), it will get past most things in snow though :D

OneTwenty
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Posts: 2390
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by OneTwenty » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:56 pm

I think the problem is the extra cost at the wrong time of year.

I would like some winter wheels/tyres but I always leave it too late and then we're into December and the idea of spunking £1500 on new wheels/tyres (for both our cars) and the hassle of fitting them and then storing the other wheels just means I don't bother.

Last week I was cursing myself for not at least getting some on the E91 which is in use everyday, but today the temps are back up to 8 degrees and I'm now thinking I've just saved myself the best part of £600-700 and as December is ridiculously expensive that saving is well received.

I understand the benefits of them, having seen it first hand not only for grip but also the fact your summer tyres are being saved, but having said that we've managed for 8 years with the E91 and not used winter tyres.

I'm going to try and get some in April next year so they are ready for next winter!! :oops:
66 M240i Coupe, MW, Coral, Auto, Vis/Comfort/Sun, Pro Nav, Heated Wheel/Seats, Elec Seats/Lumbar, Adaptive, Camera/Park Assist, Speed Lim, HK, Split/Fold, WiFi/EBT, F/M

09 320d E91, Silver, Pro Nav, BT, Auto L/W, Ht/Leather, SPG, Cruise

User avatar
MontegoBlue
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: To anyone wondering if winter tyres are worth the money...

Post by MontegoBlue » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:27 pm

Cost for me and my E91:

16" Brand new steel wheels (Tyreleader) = X4 £120
X4 205/55/16 Riken Snowtime B2's (Economy brand made by Michelin - Camskills) = £34 per tyres! Bought in August thats why.

^^ these tyres have saved my bacon a few times, highly rated!

So not exactly expensive set up :)

Post Reply

Return to “F20, F21, F22, F23 (2011 - tbd)”