Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - Ombudsman rule in my favour!

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Compactpete
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by Compactpete » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:03 am

Presumably a default notice would give 28 days to remedy the default before the demand for the full balance can be actioned.

In this case simply reversing the coding would satisfy the terms of the default notice and no further action would be required.
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by enthusiastowned » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:36 pm

fufty1 wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:06 am
I can't believe BMW will only accept a report from BMW. Insane.

The ombudsman won't take it seriously unless it gets a lot of media attention etc. They probably don't even understand what they are looking at.

As we have said time and time again on here, the only options I believe you have at this stage are to either accept the car or take legal action. BMW don't seem to be backing down, and don't really have any incentive to either considering no legal action has been taken.
I can, it's BMW's way of saying or way or the highway....

The ombudsman have not taken this seriously. They appear completely incompetent. Or just massively overworked and ill-equipped.

I should have gone legal. You're right. I still have that option but the final decision is so close, I might as well let it run the course.
Compactpete wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:31 am
If you want to fight this out of principle then you MUST get a Solicitor. Remember if it goes to court the Judge would only listen to the technical opinion of an INDEPENDANT specialist, not yours or BMW's. Though generally the specialst would be one that both parties agree to use.

Personally I would just sell the car, take the loss and put it behind you. Enjoy a bit of BMW slating along the way if you want via social media. Life's too short.

Take some consolation that this has cost BMW a few quid to get this far.
BMW have refused to acknowledge an independent specialist and will not help with the selection process. It's a £6k loss, not including the ££££ i've spent not actually using the car. I'm not sure I can take that hit.


Kerr wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:56 am
When other people have been threatened with a default notice for breaking the PCP terms it's a full settlement they've been given.

If BMW deem the warranty invalid they can't exactly take it back and sell it as a car that meets their criteria for warranty.
Intersesting, I.e. BMW take the car back and write the agreement off? Any links or evidence of this?
Compactpete wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:03 am
Presumably a default notice would give 28 days to remedy the default before the demand for the full balance can be actioned.

In this case simply reversing the coding would satisfy the terms of the default notice and no further action would be required.
The vehicle isn't coded by the way. It's an empty threat by BMW.

However, the contract is in dispute via my complaint so BMW can't legally submit a default notice until the dispute is satisfied.
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by Kerr » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:45 pm

I've worded that badly. I don't mean they get all their money back or hand the car back and walk away.

They don't want the car back and request the balance to be paid in full.


I've not got any of the links saved, but it has come up a few times.

How do you disable the stop/start and fold the mirrors etc without coding?

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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by Compactpete » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:43 pm

enthusiastowned wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:36 pm


BMW have refused to acknowledge an independent specialist and will not help with the selection process. It's a £6k loss, not including the ££££ i've spent not actually using the car. I'm not sure I can take that hit.

That's not for BMW to decide, the court would order an independent inspection if one had not been obtained. If they refuse to agree that's a win for you.

If you can't afford the loss then GET A SOLICITOR!
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by Compactpete » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:44 pm

Kerr wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:45 pm


How do you disable the stop/start and fold the mirrors etc without coding?
You can't, he's had the car coded or coded it himself.
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by michael.rs92 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:13 pm

Compactpete wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:44 pm
Kerr wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:45 pm


How do you disable the stop/start and fold the mirrors etc without coding?
You can't, he's had the car coded or coded it himself.
It's also quite common for dealers to have these features coded in now before handover

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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by OneTwenty » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:19 pm

enthusiastowned wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:36 pm
The vehicle isn't coded by the way. It's an empty threat by BMW.
So was it never coded by you? :?

I thought you'd had those bits coded and BMW were trying to use that to wriggle out of it?
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by NISFAN » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:03 pm

enthusiastowned wrote:
I don't have the o-ring and I've never seen it, only via that report which was originally a PDF and quality wasn't great anyway.

But, if you look really really closely at the cross-section, it's not actually a clean cut at all. about 1/3 from the left there is a clear 'ridge' vertically through the section. And the whole cross section looks curved. It appears to me it was a tear which partway through changes direction. This matches with a slow leak which got worse until it drastically failed. I.e. a small tear, got worse and became a full split.

However, BMW and the Independent both said that with this failure the oil loss and subsequent breakdown would have been instantaneous. I was a good 10-15 miles away from home, in a poor lit country road.

Do BMW imply that the pipe was tampered with, at dusk, with no tools; at the side of road?
In my opinion, if this does go legal, the insinuation as you have painted it, is that the gearbox whined because you tampered with the pipes and or the seal. Scuff marks and torn seal as evidence.
Whilst what you say above might seem clear cut......pardon the pun......it is vital evidence to corroborate that it wasn’t ....even partially. A pivotal rebuttable on BMW’s claim that you caused the damage and clear evidence that it was either an inherent fault at POD, or from the work carried out by the earlier bmw service visit. You need legal advice, but if I was you I would ensure that the o ring is made available for expert examination. Your opinion and diagnosis will mean nothing in court. Neither will BMW’s unless they can produce an experts report that shows it was cut, but without you having a strong case disproving the theory, there is no reason for bmw to even contemplate a settlement.
They win by default, you modified the coding, so they have one up on you.


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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by ClaretFozzy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:20 pm

I wouldn’t take any ‘technical’ report seriously that references an ‘indicator stork’ The fishing donuts.

I hope you get the outcome that you’re looking for.
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by Kerr » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:34 pm

enthusiastowned wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:53 am


I don't have the o-ring and I've never seen it, only via that report which was originally a PDF and quality wasn't great anyway.

But, if you look really really closely at the cross-section, it's not actually a clean cut at all. about 1/3 from the left there is a clear 'ridge' vertically through the section. And the whole cross section looks curved. It appears to me it was a tear which partway through changes direction. This matches with a slow leak which got worse until it drastically failed. I.e. a small tear, got worse and became a full split.


BMW say that as the car performs fine now, there is no fault. I'm saying that the gearbox has been compromised (weakened) and it could fail at any given moment; making the car unsafe. I don't want to be on a motorway when a bush decides to sh*t its pants and the gearbox seizes. Yes, that's dramatic; but possible - and that responsibility is on me.
When you cut an o-ring it's normal to be curved and the ridge like that when not using something very sharp. Any pressure on the rubber, scissors or knife, distorts it and gives a cut exactly as you describe. That sounds like a cut rather than a failure.

Just reading up to catch up it looks as if you've had endless niggles with this car. I had a look at some of the previous issues you've listed. Did you ever get to the bottom of why the car was crabbing due to the rear alignment being so far out? That looks to be your first main issue with the car.

It sounds as if your relationship was already strained with so many complaints.

It does basically sound as if BMW think you've sabotaged the car and you obviously feel they've stitched you up. It's certainly a unique case (that I've seen) and BMW do sound as if they are standing firm and have given a bit of thought to the situation.

I can't get my head round why they automatically assumed sabotage or won't accept liability for a box that has a history of issues.

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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by Mr Kirk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:38 pm

Looks more like a snap than cut to me. Like the ring has been pulled between fingers and thumbs.

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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by Compactpete » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:50 pm

What happened to the pictures showing the pool of oil outside your house?
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by mouse140i » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:44 pm

Gone on far too long and a lesson for anyone else who thinks or believes or anything else regarding issues with a new car that has a warranty.

Not saying rollover like a puppy but a line has to be drawn and it has to be drawn very early on or this can happen resulting in more problems than are really worth it.

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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by enthusiastowned » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:19 am

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your responses. Too many to individually quote so I'll pick up on the main comments.

To be clear the car isn't coded, those additional comments on the report are literally all I have and those features aren't on the car. I think it's an angle by BMW to skirt their responsibilities should things not go their way. Document it, plant the seed and action it later. As someone said, "They win by default, you modified the coding, so they have one up on you." All you guys are already questioning the coding from those four lines in that report so BMW's approach appears to be working.

The Insinuation is that the pipework and o-ring have been tampered with at some point in the vehicles life - that is all. BMW have not stated by whom, when or how and BMW have not linked the whine and the leaks. As far as BMW are concerned the vehicle whine was normal and no fault. BMW also stated that the failure from the split o-ring would have been instantaneous and therefore could not have been there from new and it's not an inherent fault; therefore the tampering must have been at the time of the final leak. I.e BMW's stance is that there is and never has been an inherent fault with the vehicle.

However, the history and the facts are:
  • The car leaked (a little drip) when it was two weeks old and it throws up an iDrive error - this leak was diagnosed as water from the aircon drain and the error a 'blip'.
  • The gearbox started whining which progressively got worse - diagnosed as normal and a characteristic without ever being proved - this started my complaint
  • The gearbox leaked again, another drip but more severe and noticeable than before. The leak was diagnosed from the oil cooler area, mixed with water from the aircon drain. The box required 1.5l to top up and it was noted the recent leak wasn't a 1.5l leak - I absolutely agree as there was not 1.5l under the car. No cause was found so there was no repair performed much to my requests.
  • The gearbox whine appeared to have been reduced
  • The gearbox failed severely dumping oil within seconds raising the same iDrive error as previously. A fault was found being the split o-ring within pipework to the oil cooler and a repair was made
  • The car was tested by an independent who state the car no longer whines
The car has leaked from new, with the residue being noted from the same area on all three leaks. The whine progressively got worse, and then better with each fluid top up strongly suggesting the whine is linked to the fluid level. A tampered pipe and split o-ring makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever; as both BMW and the independent said the failure would have been instantaneous which doesn't explain the issues from new. The history of the car shows a slow failure from new progressively getting worse. BMW have conveniently refused to link the history as I believe it contradicts their statement. I and the independent believe the issue was due to a slow leak, causing the whine and the eventual failure of the o-ring. I.e. a possible small knick to the o-ring causing a very slow leak which became worse till it fully failed.

As for the failure of the o-ring, research shows the type of failure is likely installation failure. http://daemar.com/o-rings_causesoffailure_117.html/ This is one link of many I have provided to BMW and FOS, however, this link has a statement:
Identification Of Installation Failure
It is difficult to properly illustrate the many possible results of installation failure. One of the more common failure modes is the “Skiving’’ of the O-ring surface due to cutting by metal components. Those cuts are usually very clean as if made with a very sharp knife. Another indication of bad installation will be small cuts or notches on the O-ring. In almost all cases, the damage will appear on the surface of the O-ring away from the bottom of the O-ring groove.
That sounds identical to how BMW described the failure to me. However, without professional examination of the actual o-ring we'll never know. BMW told me the part had been disposed of before producing that report, then after inspecting the part they refused to discuss anything further with me and cut all communication. It's been months since the failure and that o-ring will be long gone. I have no confidence even if I asked BMW that they would provide the actual o-ring. Nor would it prove anything. If it had been cut - by who; they only evidence we have is that BMW has inspected the car. But why would BMW cut an o-ring? Why would I. The whole accusation makes no sense - in fact, the only sense I can make of it is to pass the blame.

And yes, I've had a catalogue of issues in addition to the gearbox with the car from the second day:
  • Interior leather defect
  • wheel alignments
  • squeaky and spongy brakes
  • damage caused by Sytner Sheffield
  • a multitude of rattles and creaks, mainly the famous roof clunk/click which after around 7 attempts were failed to be repaired
All of these I considered niggles and minor annoyances (other than the roof clunk as it's weld related). However, Sytner just took the p*ss by failing to attempt repairs, damaging the car in the process, lying, delaying etc. All of this combined started to anger me; around month 5 of ownership so I started raising complaints up the chain which resukted in an official complaint to BMW FS with the gearbox whine as I felt I was being lied to: the diagnosis of the whine as a characteristic with BMW and they refused to state why they thought this.

I honestly believe Sytner Sheffield blocked this complaint by withholding information to BMW and lying about the severity of the issues. So when BMW UK and FS became involved I was already on a losing streak. A decision had been made somewhere higher up at BMW and it's been stuck to ever since. That decision by BMW still stands even after the leaks and failure.

It's been a bloody difficult complaint as BMW and their affiliates have only given partial and fragmented information. Even then, it's been passed to me by third or fourth hand. A lot of independents don't want to touch this complaint with a shitty stick. I should have gone legal months back.

If the vehicle had been tampered with, the foresight to do this would have been there from the second I bought the car - that's frankly a ridiculous notion. The bottom line is, the car's faulty but it's BMW's response and failures which have caused the complaint to get this far.

My only advice if this happens to you, don't mess around. Be firm, let BMW have one attempt then make a decision and stick to it. Go legal and balls out at the earliest opportunity. I honestly feel giving BMW opportunity after opportunity has just hindered my cause.
Last edited by enthusiastowned on Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Updated: M140i - Gearbox whine/leaks and a roof rattle - BMW are fighting me. BMW Report Uploaded

Post by michael.rs92 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:53 am

Are Sytner the group you bought through?
I have evidence that they use third parties to code before handover.

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