Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Start and join discussions that are not related to BMW. Talk about anything that takes your fancy: jokes, cars, music, anything......

Moderators: marco_polo, babybmwadmin, Lambster, Rich196, Producethis

Berry1989
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:34 am
Location: Suffolk

Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by Berry1989 »

Hi All,

We are planning quite a big project which involves the removal of a load-bearing wall to create a new kitchen/diner. The whole thing will be refurbished and new kitchen fitted. It is a relatively small area in a standard 3 bed house (no extensions or anything).

We are stressing out about costs and the overall project as this will be our first big project. We are going through Magnet who have quoted £9k for a smallish kitchen but that's with a large quartz worktop which makes up about 40% of that. We've also had a quote for a company to do everything; remove wall, fit RSJ, plumbing, electrics, fit kitchen etc of £8k.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom or things to look out for from their experience?

Cheers.
18' 220D F22 - Mineral Grey/Coral - Auto - HK - Pro Nav
11' 118D E87 - Space Grey/Black
08' 135i E82 - SGM/Coral
08' 120D E82 - Sedona Red/Black
03' EP3 Civic Type R

Nyxeris
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 1561
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:49 pm

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by Nyxeris »

Find yourself a few more independent fitters and get them to quote. My gf's brother is a kitchen fitter/general builder, companies like Magnet just outsource everything to people like him. The fitters get paid slightly less in exchange for guaranteed work, but the company pockets that saving and adds 25% on as their commission.
E81 130i | Build Thread

OneTwenty
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Posts: 3509
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by OneTwenty »

I can give plenty of advice on this one, and my first bit of advice is that everything costs way more than you think it will, even if like me you've had experience of it before!! :lol:

We started a large extension on the back of our house last year. Started in October and was finished in March this year, the worktops going in just 4 days before full lockdown!! I just had to finish the plumbing and decorating.

I know you say you don't have any extension work, so is it just knocking down the load bearing wall to create an open space? What size will it be?

£8k seems a decent price for the work to be done, the kitchen depends on the size. We did the kitchen with our builders by sourcing it from Howden's, getting the flooring separately, the worktops from a granite place and then paying the builders to fit it all. It does start adding up though. The discounted Howden's bill was £11k (with 70% discount from their made up RRP) just for the units and a boiling water tap and sink, flooring was £2k, worktops £5k, appliances £5k and fitting it all was £1,600. Underfloor heating was £5k as well. :shock: :shock:

So our kitchen was around the £25/27k region when divided into the whole space (i.e. flooring/heating covers dining and living area as well). And this was all discounted from people I know!! :shock:

But it's a huge space we had made so well justified in this case.

If you're thinking about the kitchen design, think about the working triangle between oven, sink and fridge/food storage and if you can, try and think where you might have things like plates etc as that will help with the layout.

Also think about lighting, sockets etc. I had sockets all over with USB plugs, and also added some network points here and there which will go to the network cupboard when I build it!

One thing I do regret is not breaking the lighting circuits down further than we did so some of our lights are all on the same switch when 3 switches would have been better.

And don't assume the kitchen fitters are experts - I had to have some units removed and re-done as I wasn't happy with them so if you can try and be there when fitting so you can annoy them by keeping an eye on it!!

You will go over your budget by maybe 10-15% but it will be worth it. The work we had done is awesome and even though we went £20k over what we wanted to I wouldn't take anything away from it.

And a last bit of advice, if asking the workmen/trades to "just do that bit there" it all has a cost attached. I did this with lots of things and got a hefty "extras" bill at the end!! :lol:
66 M240i Coupe, MW, Coral, Auto, Vis/Comfort/Sun, Pro Nav, Heated Wheel/Seats, Elec Seats/Lumbar, Adaptive, Camera/Park Assist, Speed Lim, HK, Split/Fold, WiFi/EBT, F/M

09 320d E91, Silver, Pro Nav, BT, Auto L/W, Ht/Leather, SPG, Cruise

Nyxeris
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 1561
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:49 pm

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by Nyxeris »

Also, we've got engineered granite in ours; was about 25% of the cost of real granite, and the only person who's ever noticed was a builder!
E81 130i | Build Thread

OneTwenty
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Posts: 3509
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by OneTwenty »

We went for quartz in ours and I was very happy with how it turned out. The first lot they did for us fell off the crane when they were loading it up and smashed all over the loading bay!! They had to ship some new slabs over from Spain, and one of them was a jumbo slab!! :shock:

The quartz cost more than granite, but had better colour choice.
66 M240i Coupe, MW, Coral, Auto, Vis/Comfort/Sun, Pro Nav, Heated Wheel/Seats, Elec Seats/Lumbar, Adaptive, Camera/Park Assist, Speed Lim, HK, Split/Fold, WiFi/EBT, F/M

09 320d E91, Silver, Pro Nav, BT, Auto L/W, Ht/Leather, SPG, Cruise

User avatar
HN1989x
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:24 pm
Location: North London

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by HN1989x »

I did the exact same about 4 years ago.

If you are mid terrace/semi detatched and are removing a load bearing wall, get a structural engineer in as you may need a new support beam put in place and you may have to get a party wall agreement with your neighbour. If it is in your own wall or you have a detached house, this isn't a problem.

https://photo.mybuilder.com/2_thumb/452 ... dfb6b6.jpg

That is the plan I gave my builder. The biggest stress was the party wall agreement. I live in a mid terrace house and my neighbours turned into right arseholes when I began the works, and refused to give me permission to start the work even though the party wall agreement was in place. They wanted me to wait the full 30 days.

Find yourself a decent builder who is willing to pass on 100% of his Howdens "discount" to you. I designed the basic layout of my kitchen myself and I picked out units from Howdens after.

Do not buy Quartz from Magnet as they will rip you off on the price. To give you a rough idea of what I paid, I have a peninsula kitchen. I went for Caeserstone Quartz worktops

Worktop 1: 2600mm
Worktop 2: 1800mm
Worktop 3: 1400mm


30mm + 20MM overhang/Edges
Double Bevelled Edges
Undermount Sink
5x Drainage Grooves
1 Hob Cut Out
1 Tap Hole

Price: £2,900 (excl. VAT) Other companies were quoting me over £5k for the Caeserstone.

What adds to the cost is if they need to cut into a new slab if you want the joins in a specific place. Their standard slab sizes I believe are 4M x 3M, so if you can get all the cuts you need from the one slab, this will reduce the price dramatically.

You say small-ish kitchen which isn't very much to go by. The most expensive thing will be the cupboard doors, not the units themselves.

My kitchen was roughly £4.5k. It was closer to £5k but I returned one unit that I didn't need.

What added to the price:
1. Fancy units like a pull out larder
2. Full extension corner units with pull out kidney trays
3. Extra tall units

If you want, I can dig out my old kitchen plans and Howdens Quote so that you can use as a reference for pricing :)

Whatever you think your budget is, you will probably end up spending far more. I had a budget of £50k. I spent close to £100k. :oops:

OneTwenty
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Posts: 3509
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by OneTwenty »

One other question, where are you based?

If you're in the North we used these guys for the quartz tops and they were excellent - https://www.mayfairgranite.co.uk
66 M240i Coupe, MW, Coral, Auto, Vis/Comfort/Sun, Pro Nav, Heated Wheel/Seats, Elec Seats/Lumbar, Adaptive, Camera/Park Assist, Speed Lim, HK, Split/Fold, WiFi/EBT, F/M

09 320d E91, Silver, Pro Nav, BT, Auto L/W, Ht/Leather, SPG, Cruise

Berry1989
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:34 am
Location: Suffolk

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by Berry1989 »

Thanks for all of the input! A few answers to some questions:

- We live in a detached house so no worries about neighbour agreements etc although we will still need the structural engineer report
- The rough size of the area will be about 3M X 5M
- We are based in Suffolk

We also didn't go for the fancy draw inserts or anything like that as mentioned as they were unbelievably expensive! We already have quite a new oven/grill/microwave so only a few appliances needed. Kitchen is roughly £5k & worktop roughly £4k. The worktop will have a large 'L' shape bit to create a lot of work space. I do the cooking so my whole drive behind the kitchen was to have a nice, large work surface so I'm prepared to pay for the quartz!
18' 220D F22 - Mineral Grey/Coral - Auto - HK - Pro Nav
11' 118D E87 - Space Grey/Black
08' 135i E82 - SGM/Coral
08' 120D E82 - Sedona Red/Black
03' EP3 Civic Type R

OneTwenty
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Posts: 3509
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by OneTwenty »

Berry1989 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:36 am
Thanks for all of the input! A few answers to some questions:

- We live in a detached house so no worries about neighbour agreements etc although we will still need the structural engineer report
- The rough size of the area will be about 3M X 5M
- We are based in Suffolk

We also didn't go for the fancy draw inserts or anything like that as mentioned as they were unbelievably expensive! We already have quite a new oven/grill/microwave so only a few appliances needed. Kitchen is roughly £5k & worktop roughly £4k. The worktop will have a large 'L' shape bit to create a lot of work space. I do the cooking so my whole drive behind the kitchen was to have a nice, large work surface so I'm prepared to pay for the quartz!
I'd certainly look into that quartz price separately if I was you.

Just for info, we had 5 sections of quartz:

1. 3m long with sink cutout but running into the window flat so it's 90cm wide in the middle (i.e. needed half a slab for that)
2. 2m long on an L to the above.
3. 2m long straight
4. A smaller piece that will go in a pantry I build, that was 1.2m long.
5. A huge island which required a large jumbo slab as it was 2.6m by 1.6m with a hob cutout.

Beveled edges, and up stands all round.

The price with 3 joins came to £4,200 fitted but I only wanted 1 join so it came to £4,800 in the end and the job they did was fantastic.

That was Silestone Steller Blanco.

It was a large cost, but very glad we went for it as it really finished the job off. Our large island has the hob in it so I can stand watching the TV in the family room whilst cooking as I also do a lot of the cooking and love it!
66 M240i Coupe, MW, Coral, Auto, Vis/Comfort/Sun, Pro Nav, Heated Wheel/Seats, Elec Seats/Lumbar, Adaptive, Camera/Park Assist, Speed Lim, HK, Split/Fold, WiFi/EBT, F/M

09 320d E91, Silver, Pro Nav, BT, Auto L/W, Ht/Leather, SPG, Cruise

User avatar
Simon Site Manager
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 872
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by Simon Site Manager »

As OneTwenty says Howdens not Magnets. Howdens units are top quality and where the trade buys, in fact I'm looking at Howdens units sitting in my office at work.
'17 M140i Estoril Blue Most of the toys. Every time I see an F40 it makes me :(

User avatar
Simon Site Manager
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 872
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by Simon Site Manager »

HN1989x wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:44 pm

Find yourself a decent builder who is willing to pass on 100% of his Howdens "discount" to you. I designed the basic layout of my kitchen myself and I picked out units from Howdens after.
You can open a trade account with Howdens yourself and get the discount!
'17 M140i Estoril Blue Most of the toys. Every time I see an F40 it makes me :(

OneTwenty
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Too Much Time To Waste Member
Posts: 3509
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by OneTwenty »

I was happy with the Howdens stuff, I ended up helping the builder install it on the 1st day as the other builder was sick. It was easy to install and the quality is very good. It’s holding up well to family use so far.
66 M240i Coupe, MW, Coral, Auto, Vis/Comfort/Sun, Pro Nav, Heated Wheel/Seats, Elec Seats/Lumbar, Adaptive, Camera/Park Assist, Speed Lim, HK, Split/Fold, WiFi/EBT, F/M

09 320d E91, Silver, Pro Nav, BT, Auto L/W, Ht/Leather, SPG, Cruise

User avatar
HN1989x
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:24 pm
Location: North London

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by HN1989x »

Simon Site Manager wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:51 pm
HN1989x wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:44 pm

Find yourself a decent builder who is willing to pass on 100% of his Howdens "discount" to you. I designed the basic layout of my kitchen myself and I picked out units from Howdens after.
You can open a trade account with Howdens yourself and get the discount!
Unless you lie about your trade status, you cannot open a Howdens trade account.

Also, you wont be getting anywhere near the same discount as a tradesman who buys from them regularly.

User avatar
Simon Site Manager
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 872
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by Simon Site Manager »

HN1989x wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:10 am
Simon Site Manager wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:51 pm
HN1989x wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:44 pm

Find yourself a decent builder who is willing to pass on 100% of his Howdens "discount" to you. I designed the basic layout of my kitchen myself and I picked out units from Howdens after.
You can open a trade account with Howdens yourself and get the discount!
Unless you lie about your trade status, you cannot open a Howdens trade account.

Also, you wont be getting anywhere near the same discount as a tradesman who buys from them regularly.
Not true, there is a simple form that does not require trade references, a business bank account or confirmation of VAT registration (providing your not looking for credit). I know, I did this a few weeks ago.
'17 M140i Estoril Blue Most of the toys. Every time I see an F40 it makes me :(

User avatar
HN1989x
Enthusiastic Member
Enthusiastic Member
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 3:24 pm
Location: North London

Re: Kitchen/Diner Refurb / Removal of Wall

Post by HN1989x »

Simon Site Manager wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:22 am

Not true, there is a simple form that does not require trade references, a business bank account or confirmation of VAT registration (providing your not looking for credit). I know, I did this a few weeks ago.
Maybe things have changed then but 7 years ago they would not allow me to open up a trade account when I wanted to refurbish my rental flat!

Either way, you wont be getting anywhere near the same level of discount as frequent traders/builders do.



OP - Goodluck with the works. :mrgreen:

Post Reply

Return to “General Chit Chat (Off Topic)”